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Out with the old, in with the new..
Soldat Forums - Soldat Talk - General Discussions
.alex.oner.
November 6, 2005, 4:10 am
Ok, so clearly alot of the beta-testers at the moment are inactive, so out with the old, in with the new i say.. But is handing the beta out to the public to decide on what should be changed and things a step too far? I thought the beta testers were supose to play the beta, and finalise it, not the public, otherwise the beta testers aren't doing a 'proper' job.. Either way, new beta-testers is a must. Ones that are active, well known, and trustworthy, these will be mostly found on IRC, i'm pretty sure a non-IRC user would know not that much about the soldat community, although alot of the regular IRC users dont step into these forums, but could be easily changed if they had somthing worth while to check on, like the beta..

So, what do the beta testers do then? talk about weapon balance, talk about some more wep balance, and mabyea bit more wep balance.. But what's this? Now the public are to do the weapon balance?? So what are the beta-testers doing right now then? I think that the beta testers should stop thinking about the balance, and come up with other ideas, like plenty that have been said in the game improvment part of these forums, but yet never get put into the new versions.. Why is this? Mabye because the beta testing team dont have time to read through all those topics? SO LETS GET SOME NEW BETA TESTERS ON THE GO! When a thread was made on TNL forums about the wep balance, all of the replys which followed it were along the lines of leaving it is at the moment, and any more sudden changes in it would [CENSORED] the whole game up even more.. And I know alot of people would agree with that. So, new beta-testers is the ulmighty soloution! Those who listen to others in the deep pits of conversations in IRC! Those who know what would be a great improvement & things.. I myself am against the public beta testing, why hand it over to a bunch of forum muppets? What do they know about fair teams in their 8 vs 8 noobish public games, what about those who play in clan wars daily, and gathers, surely they know what is lame and not, what can be changed, SO LETS PUT THEM IN CHARGE, not some noob whos just downloaded soldat..

OK, there is my lecture, and i'm sure i could write another 200 odd words on this, but i'm tired and its 4am..
Hope to get your comments!

SamueL
November 6, 2005, 4:13 am
Alex0ner for President!

That being said, I completely agree with this man's sentiments. ^

Deleted User
November 6, 2005, 4:18 am
Once again I support Alex Oners views which are also my views btw :). The beta team definately needs a makeover, one that will add features such as active, trustworthy players from teh competitive soldat community, rather than just adding some more forum "vets".

Chakra`
November 6, 2005, 4:58 am
I find it really odd that you can deem the entire IRC populace of the Soldat community as being the peak of mature intelligence when involved towards beta testing.

We 'are' looking for more beta testers, and not just from the forums. Finding them (then agreeing on them) is quite a difficult thing. But like you say, we do need a makeover. But things like 'veteran' status, post count, or your kill-to-death ratio are far from what we look for at all.


Not only do we have to find relatively sensible mature people from around the globe who can offer a variety of unbiased perspectives, we have to sleep with them.

Deleted User
November 6, 2005, 5:26 am
I agree, you need somone to find flaws ^_^

Deleted User
November 6, 2005, 5:50 am
i agree with chakra, its not about what uve done, its about how much you WILL contribute

117
November 6, 2005, 6:13 am
i can rigorously test the soldat system/soldat forum system just to find flaws, but it's a pity if the flaws don't get fixed

peemonkey
November 6, 2005, 6:40 am
i know i wont be accepted ever, so sign me up ;)

GAMEOVER
November 6, 2005, 7:03 am
I agree, I dont understand how beta testers could miss sooooo many bugs. I know if I was a beta tester I would have caught close to 90% of the bugs that have been reported. Reason I dont report most bugs is because people like to argue with me or not even allow my post so I dont bother anymore. For example ive said when using a chainsaw your nades will be more effective people still dont believe me but I dont care because I know its there wether this is a bug or was intentional ill never know.

DragonSlayer
November 6, 2005, 7:57 am
Well, I agree that public beta testing is not exactly a good idea. You'll need to pick a handful of mature, active and knowledgeable players who are capable of finding bugs, analyzing the balance issues and also discuss how to make Soldat better than before with others to ultimately find the best solution. You'll find these people from IRC. I don't exactly know how you should pick them, but the point is that there are lots of players who would be good beta testers. It'd be such a waste to not use them, since they are potential beta testers.

But I do want to say that it's kind of weird that the people who have lots of posts on forums are usually the beta testers. I mean, it does prove that they are active in the Soldat community, but that doesn't tell anything about their level of skill or how much they REALLY know about the game. Of course it will be a bit hard to pick the right players if you don't know them at all. But as long as there are some active IRCers (Europeans and Americans) in the current beta testing team, I'm sure they'll be able to pick a few good new beta testers.

By the way, I think that 1.3 is a very good version. Beta testing team did a good job. Still, the spray is still a problem and there are still lots of bugs, as well as some minor balancing issues. I think that finding a solution to these problems takes priority. Man, I have lots of good ideas how to add all kind of cool things to Soldat and make it better that way, but fixing the flaws should definitely take priority.

Deleted User
November 6, 2005, 8:01 am
ill say that guy ^ can probably be one of them ;).

Chakra, I wasnt stating that you will find the perfect beta testers on IRC. But I cant help but notice that most of the beta testers are just "forum vets" who dont play the game much anymore. I personally look at people who arent beta testers, but should probably be. And these are active, competitve soldat players who have been playing very long and are pretty trustworthy.

frogboy
November 6, 2005, 8:11 am
quote:Originally posted by GAMEOVERI agree, I dont understand how beta testers could miss sooooo many bugs. I know if I was a beta tester I would have caught close to 90% of the bugs that have been reported.
There are a few bugs that we found that Michal couldn't fix, and left in. A lot of bugs were squashed in beta testing. Nobody is perfect, and there's always newer versions to fix bugs that we missed.

quote:Originally posted by .alex.oner.think that the beta testers should stop thinking about the balance, and come up with other ideas, like plenty that have been said in the game improvment part of these forums, but yet never get put into the new versions.. Why is this? Mabye because the beta testing team dont have time to read through all those topics?
We don't add new features to Soldat - we're testers, not programmers. We may suggest that Michal adds a few "better" ideas to Soldat (such as tab-complete), but most of it's finding bugs, weapon balance (which was closer to release), and the occasional new map.

quote:not some noob whos just downloaded soldat..
Out of curiosity, how long have you been playing?

quote: Ones that are active, well known, and trustworthy, these will be mostly found on IRC, i'm pretty sure a non-IRC user would know not that much about the soldat communityThere are several soldat communities - mainly due to ping. The Australian, European and American communities stay somewhat detached from each other, however we have people from all three to maintain a balance. And I'm sure that most of us are active and trustworthy. Just because *your* community revolves around IRC, doesn't mean the rest do.

quote:all of the replys which followed it were along the lines of leaving it is at the moment, and any more sudden changes in it would the whole game up even more..And as such, the next version will probably only be bug fixes with some minor weapons tweaks.

GAMEOVER
November 6, 2005, 9:04 am
Now thats a good reply lol

Echo_Trail
November 6, 2005, 9:15 am
alex, i like you point.. Betatesters should be active, and if they're not, someone else should take part in their job. But i hardly think this case demands such an extreme act of deviding..
And let's not forget, that someone who plays soldat every day tends to love 1 or 2 weapons, and would clearly vote for them.. Like myself, i just love mp5 and AUG, and if i was to test the beta versions, i can honestly say that those 2 weapons would be some level of overpowered.
And, god forbid it, beta testing must NEVER be done public! The 8th deathsin is hereby revealed. Look on these poor [CENSORED]s on this forum; even with the weapon mods they freak out on everything. they spend millions and billions af bytes, sitting there quarreling about what is noobish and lame, trying to get their own idea in the sun. It's no good.

I really like you bringing this up, and i'm both for and against. i say: bring in some new fresh meat, but keep the "oldies" around.. the veterans.. they know what it is all about..
echo out

Outcast
November 6, 2005, 11:22 am
It's always like that, some skip a certain a version, and are very active on the next, and it changes every version.

Felix
November 6, 2005, 11:49 am
Yea the most important thing to fix, it's the bugs !

Dj-SAGI
November 6, 2005, 12:24 pm
can you stop whine about The balance ?
like u did in 1.2.1
now you whine about it in 1.3
stop whine!
You guys are destroying soldat!
let it be!!!!
arrr
just play the game!


Now look at a good reply on TNL forums!
I agree with Lightning!
Michal can not create a version which every Soldat player will like...thats just not possible and you guys force him to do a new version again and again...



Michal ----> if you can hear me!!
don't change anything!!
just ignore those whiners plz!!!
Like they did whine before they are going do this in 1.3.1

if you want to make soldat better!
Just add a MIC that we can talk on it!
insted of using TS2 or Vitrlo.
and don't say its annyoing!
coz u can mute them ( they spammers )
So plz god help us!

Sry about my english !

Captain Ben
November 6, 2005, 12:52 pm
quote:Originally posted by Dj-SAGIcan you stop whine about The balance ?
like u did in 1.2.1
now you whine about it in 1.3
stop whine!
You guys are destroying soldat!
let it be!!!!
arrr
just play the game!


Now look at a good reply on TNL forums!
I agree with Lightning!
Michal can not create a version which every Soldat player will like...thats just not possible and you guys force him to do a new version again and again...



Michal ----> if you can hear me!!
don't change anything!!
just ignore those whiners plz!!!
Like they did whine before they are going do this in 1.3.1

if you want to make soldat better!
Just add a MIC that we can talk on it!
insted of using TS2 or Vitrlo.
and don't say its annyoing!
coz u can mute them ( they spammers )
So plz god help us!

Sry about my english !


ANd that wasn't whining?
@Echo_Trail: I've seen some whining and [CENSORED]ing from you, so I wouldn't be too quick to generalise.
I think Alex Oner is right. I think that in the next version, some risks have to be made. By saying this, It'd be good to say that attempting a Public Beta could be the solution to the weapon balance situation, or then again, it could bomb horribly.

Be sure to play your cards right, gentlemen.

Deleted User
November 6, 2005, 12:58 pm
You can sign me up, ive been in 14 clan wars as the leader of my clan. I do sometimes use IRC to find CWs but IRC looking like it was made in 1983 does put me off. :P

.alex.oner.
November 6, 2005, 1:13 pm
if you read what i said then you would realised i stated that from the majority they dont want the weapon balance changed.. read it properly before you reply Dj-SAGI

bl00dy_n0se
November 6, 2005, 1:29 pm
If the weapon balance stays the same, then it's ok for me! But I just can say what I said in TNL forums, I think this is a very good version of soldat and I dont need a new one

Outcast
November 6, 2005, 1:37 pm
quote:Originally posted by SDFilmYou can sign me up, ive been in 14 clan wars a the leader of my clan. I do sometimes use IRC to find CWs but IRC looking like it was made in 1983 does put me off. :P


Hey that's just great, i've been in hundreds. And mIRC looks can be modified completely. Now we both said something that goes with the topic.

DePhille
November 6, 2005, 1:57 pm
IRC is not a very good place to rely on (atleast if that is your only source). Considering the average talk on some channels it'd be wiser to leave IRC alone and find people (you heard me , they don't have to be a one-man-army or someone that plays the game 6hrs a day)that do alot for the community , like FliesLikeABrick or the Selfkill-crew etc. Those people are the heart of the Soldat community. If they'd stop existing Soldat would become a game that people play for one week and then abandon it. Also , these people have experience with coding (ASP , PHP , Java , JS , HTML , Flash , C , C++ , VisualBasic , Delphi , ..) and they know the logic of coding. With that i mean that they know how difficult or how easy it is to fix something or maybe even how to fix it.

Please , don't go find new Moderators too quickly , take your time and think about it. This could ruin Soldat if chosen wrong.

Grtz , DePhille

.alex.oner.
November 6, 2005, 2:13 pm
DePhille, FliesLikeABrick is on irc for many hours a day.. I'm not saying the only way to get beta is via IRC, but many of the well-known players who contribute alot to the community are on IRC.. I would like you to find me someone who doesn't use irc and only these forums, that knows somthing about the soldat community.. I'm sure that would be a very hard task. Although, points that some people have brought up about beta testers having to be interneational and all over the globe, sure, mainly europian players use IRC but there is a fair few from other places that use it too..

FragBait
November 6, 2005, 2:58 pm
Just leave the game alone? Fix the obvious bugs but other than that leave it..

To be honest I do not care. The balance has been changed 1000 times already. I guess another change will not hurt much. Used to it by now. People will always whine. When will you learn that you can not please everyone. The perfect balance does not exist. There will always be some people who will not be satisfied.

But the stuff I hear about making Barret and M79 so that you have to hold down to shoot, just like with LAW, is wack in my opinion. Atleast on M79 which in my opinion is and has always been the hardest weapon to use. It is easy to use in close range, but so is weapons like Ruger, Barret and even knife. But in long range M79 is by far the most difficult weapon to use. In my opinion atleast.

Anyway, my opinion: Leave it as it is now. Just fix obvious bugs and MAYBE try to improve the netcode? And this thing about red team getting 20 points per cap and blue team getting 25, I never understood it but it seems kind of wierd to me. Does not matter much though. A cap is a cap.

DragonSlayer
November 6, 2005, 3:08 pm
quote:Originally posted by SDFilmYou can sign me up, ive been in 14 clan wars as the leader of my clan. I do sometimes use IRC to find CWs but IRC looking like it was made in 1983 does put me off. :P

You do realize tbat there's LOTS of people on irc who have played hundreds of clanwars? And sometimes play 14 in just a few days. And clan wars isn't everything... but that's not exactly what I meant by experienced players.

quote:But the stuff I hear about making Barret and M79 so that you have to hold down to shoot, just like with LAW, is wack in my opinion. Atleast on M79 which in my opinion is and has always been the hardest weapon to use. It is easy to use in close range, but so is weapons like Ruger, Barret and even knife.
Agreed. The idea of making M79 have a short wait before shooting is just ridiculous. Like you said, it's already the hardest primary to use and master. Knife is the hardest when it comes to long range stuff though. :D Which is why I <3 it.

quote:And this thing about red team getting 20 points per cap and blue team getting 25, I never understood it but it seems kind of wierd to me.
It's a bug and will definitely be fixed.

Deleted User
November 6, 2005, 5:16 pm
quote:Originally posted by DragonSlayerquote:Originally posted by SDFilmYou can sign me up, ive been in 14 clan wars as the leader of my clan. I do sometimes use IRC to find CWs but IRC looking like it was made in 1983 does put me off. :P

You do realize tbat there's LOTS of people on irc who have played hundreds of clanwars? And sometimes play 14 in just a few days. And clan wars isn't everything... but that's not exactly what I meant by experienced players.

I'm not trying to say that 14 clan wars is a lot, I just meant that although im not a Vet, im not just some random noob that has only played in publics. Are you saying that I have to know Soldat Vets to know what good balancing is? Or are you just saying that IRC is where most of the level-headed people are :S

DePhille
November 6, 2005, 5:46 pm
Alex: FliesLikeABrick is alot on MSN but he isn't there , check MSN if you want to make sure. I know most comunity-familiar people are on IRC , but it's not otherwise you see. If 99% of the moderators have IRC it doesn't mean that 99% of the IRC population is familiar with the Soldat community. The people who are the most familiar with Soldat and it's community are those who have contributed to it by spending time for it (not playing in this case).
Besides: I think (a vague thought) that the moderators only got IRC when they BECAME a moderator and not before , but that doesn't really matter and probably counts in just 10% of the cases.

Grtz , DePhille

b00stA
November 6, 2005, 6:33 pm
First, thank you Frogboy for your reply, you saved me from throwing random insults around the forums.

quote:Originally posted by GAMEOVERI agree, I dont understand how beta testers could miss sooooo many bugs. I know if I was a beta tester I would have caught close to 90% of the bugs that have been reported.
No, you wouldn't. Honestly.
Think about it, there are many many bugs that appear between the current official release and the next official release. You do not see most of these bugs because they're fixed before the version goes public. Maybe we should dig up the old bug list topics from the beta.


quote:Reason I dont report most bugs is because people like to argue with me or not even allow my post so I dont bother anymore. For example ive said when using a chainsaw your nades will be more effective people still dont believe me but I dont care because I know its there wether this is a bug or was intentional ill never know.

That is an exploit. You are not supposed to post exploits on the forums. It is quite simple. A topic was created about this in the beta testing forum and Michal should take care of this now.

It's true that the current beta test is going slow, however the version hasn't changed very much and many of the bugs have already been reported and/or can't be fixed by Michal (at the moment, hopefully).
Also, could people decide what they actually want? There was whining about the balance everywhere and now people come up and say "stop it with the balance, concentrate more on bugs"?
Bugs always were first in the beta testing, at least that's how it looks to me.

.alex.oner.
November 6, 2005, 6:47 pm
Instead of consitrating on the weapon balance this version, perhaps some beta testers should go look here: http://www.soldatforums.com/forum.asp?forum_id=88 and here: http://www.soldatforums.com/forum.asp?forum_id=40 and read over the pages of pages with really good ideas and suggestions on, but have never actually been put into the game..

Chakra`
November 6, 2005, 7:07 pm
alexoner, for the last and final time, you thicko chav c*nt....


The beta testing team do not suggest, subvert, create or in any way introduce or capable of introducing ideas like "voice communicator", "a new weapon - m16" (which was what the steyr was long ago), or "dual ingram mac-10's". We don't 'add' things, Michal does. I told you this.

b00stA
November 6, 2005, 7:12 pm
A few things got added because of requests by beta testers, but it's not what we do.

If we added things, you could now jump around with bunny ears.

Also, remember: New features are just bugs in disguise.

.alex.oner.
November 6, 2005, 7:13 pm
Yes I know, but it's up to you guys to bring it to his attention, so going through the links i have given you and showing Michal the ones that the public seem to like the most, give more detailed in-put towards the ideas, etc..

b00stA
November 6, 2005, 7:29 pm
Michal moves in mysterious ways.

You never really know what Michal is going to do next. I was the guy who pushed him towards changing the game physics so they would resemble 1.0.5b more.
He does pick up things from the improvements forum, but it's kind of rare.

Maybe have a look at this: http://ircquotes.blaffnet.de/soldatvotes/index.php?page=suggestionlist
The list of suggestions is rather old, but you can see that the more positive suggestions got added by Michal.

I think we should finish the current beta first and start over again. The current beta is just supposed to a bug fix, just like every version after a big release like 1.3

Then again, Michal is learning as he does things. He may not be able to add certain things at the moment, but he might later on. I'm sure he loves a few ideas out there but he's not able to do them and doesn't admit it :)

DePhille
November 6, 2005, 8:14 pm
That's normal b00sta , people seem to forget that some small changes could create hours of work. And if he admits that he can't do it ppl will start blaming him for 'not knowing how to make a game' and that'll have it's consequences.

By the way: those are beta-TESTERS , they don't suggest things , they try the suggested things.

Grtz , DePhille

Dj-SAGI
November 6, 2005, 10:25 pm
quote:Originally posted by bl00dy_n0seIf the weapon balance stays the same, then it's ok for me! But I just can say what I said in TNL forums, I think this is a very good version of soldat and I dont need a new one

yeap i am with you!
just fix some bugs
and add MICROPHONE! that we will clan talk while we are playing!

.alex.oner.
November 6, 2005, 10:38 pm
there is allready teamspeak and vent for that ^^

Deleted User
November 6, 2005, 11:14 pm
quote:Originally posted by Dj-SAGIcan you stop whine about The balance ?
like u did in 1.2.1
now you whine about it in 1.3
stop whine!
You guys are destroying soldat!
let it be!!!!
arrr
just play the game!


Now look at a good reply on TNL forums!
I agree with Lightning!
Michal can not create a version which every Soldat player will like...thats just not possible and you guys force him to do a new version again and again...



Michal ----> if you can hear me!!
don't change anything!!
just ignore those whiners plz!!!
Like they did whine before they are going do this in 1.3.1

if you want to make soldat better!
Just add a MIC that we can talk on it!
insted of using TS2 or Vitrlo.
and don't say its annyoing!
coz u can mute them ( they spammers )
So plz god help us!

Sry about my english !



Oh well, you agree with lightning ? ok fine.
Dude, you gotta know nothing about soldat to say that.
Of course people whine when a version sucks, and in my opinion 1.3 is the worst.
Seriously I would make a LONNNNNNNNNNNG post but I can't be arsed.
All I want to say, is that I wish i were beta tester, but not just me, All active players, that are known and take part in the REAL community...cause guys I can safely tell you, that soldat forums don't represent our community.
Further more, i don't like the way the beta testers are chosen.
I mean if you post more like 1000 times, you be one ? what the hell is that ? then whoever that likes reading, and wastin ghis time typing over a game he plays 5 minutes per week, is enough "experienced/contributing" to the community..right?
That's so bullsh!t, and i gotta disagree with this system.
I just want you to take real soldat players, as beta testers., I don't mean taking 12yo poles that plays 10hours a day, and can't speak properly,(or even think / i'm not racist ;)), but serious people, that have played enough, not necessarily very, good, just decent, but who know what people hate/like, and try to be FAIR.
bye for now I go sleep SCHOOL TOMORROW !

Deleted User
November 7, 2005, 2:32 am
I would have to say I definetly disagree with the IRC views by most of the people here. For a better tester you don't need a popular person who knows all the people in the community, as far as I see it that doesn't help with beta testing at all. For a good beta tester I think you need active, dedicated people without weapon bias or anything. I personally don't use IRC because for a long time it wouldn't work on my computer, and still may not. I also may not have been around for that long but that certainly doesn't give my arguement less reasoning or importance, or make me a newb. Far from it I think.

Huge changes are not what is needed, maybe a few tweaks but some people will ALWAYS be mad at the balance. The people who continue to complain after everyone else has adjusted are the ones who cause more balance to be needed. And usually they are the "newbs".

VodkaZombie
November 7, 2005, 3:12 am
quote:For a better tester you don't need a popular person who knows all the people in the community, as far as I see it that doesn't help with beta testing at all. For a good beta tester I think you need active, dedicated people without weapon bias or anything

I think most people would agree on that. But whats important is someone that has a basic knowledge of programming, its essential for people to understand the concepts, and can compare whether those ideas are logical and wouldnt ruin the game.


Echo_Trail
November 7, 2005, 5:50 am
quote:Originally posted by b00stA

Also, remember: New features are just bugs in disguise.

there it goes..

Ben, it's obvious that the public wouldn't be able to handle it..
And about generalising, are you telling me that it isn't so? Sure i complain about things, and sure i'm up for a hell of alot discussions, but that is what the discussions forum is for, so get off my back!
Anyway, to get back on the trail.. It's not like the public don't have anything to say.. whenever a new version comes out, people gives their opinion on it(in severel different levels, i'll say), wich is all taken to consideration conserning the upcoming version..
echo out

Captain Ben
November 7, 2005, 6:51 am
Echo Trail, what makes you so sure? If anything, if the weapon balance is totally ignored (until the next real version, not a bug fixer), and the glitches/bugs are fixed, won't that spell total success? But, if you somehow got your head around my whole post, you would have noticed the 'bomb horribly' part. I was never on your back, I was just a bit shocked at how you've only joined these forums just two weeks ago, and are so quick to say that we are all whiners. That's what I meant by 'generalising'.

Deleted User
November 7, 2005, 7:22 am
quote:Originally posted by DePhilleAlso , these people have experience with coding (ASP , PHP , Java , JS , HTML , Flash , C , C++ , VisualBasic , Delphi , ..) and they know the logic of coding


I agree with that; strongly...

Captain Ben
November 7, 2005, 1:11 pm
God! I never knew there were that many languages!

b00stA
November 7, 2005, 1:29 pm
quote:Originally posted by Ouchek
Further more, i don't like the way the beta testers are chosen.
I mean if you post more like 1000 times, you be one ? what the hell is that ? then whoever that likes reading, and wastin ghis time typing over a game he plays 5 minutes per week, is enough "experienced/contributing" to the community..right?

Simple. People get to test the beta if we think they're capable of finding and presenting bugs to Michal/the rest of the beta team.
Someone we know that knows enough about Soldat or, as said before, has experience in programming, which does help find bugs.

DePhille named FlieslikeaBrick: he's part of the team. So are a few from Selfkill.

Edit: The amount of posts in this forum happens to correlate with the ability to test Soldat. However it does not automatically mean that people with many posts become testers because of that.

Chakra`
November 7, 2005, 1:58 pm
On that note, alot of our post count 'comes' from the beta forum. How ya think I got such a rack while being regged here for just 3 months without spamming everywhere?


Please, have a little more respect for the beta team than thinking it's a forumers-only thing. It's quality, not quantity. The only importance related to the forum is that it's the way we keep in contact with each other and with Michal.


-Claw-
November 7, 2005, 3:54 pm
Does team have ANYONE with less than 1000 posts? or does it have ANYONE in active clan? Does it have ANYONE who really is active and wants to do more than be a pround member of beta team?

Chakra`
November 7, 2005, 4:37 pm
To answer your 3 stupid questions, yes.

Literally off the top of my head, question 1 = me, question 2 = Outcast, and question 3 = what in the name of hell mary jehovafet, being a beta tester just for 'pride'? since when did being a beta tester dish out the pride?

My gawd -Claw- ....my...gawd.

Chakra`
November 7, 2005, 4:39 pm

.........my...........gawd .......




.Loki
November 7, 2005, 4:49 pm
The only reason post count matters would be that high posters generally know how to voice what they are saying well. Unless they spam a lot. Basically for beta testing, you want someone with a friendly personality and with writing skills above the 7th grade level. Also, they have to be willing to TEST...which, despite popular belief, isn't just sitting around playing soldat all day just for the hell of playing soldat.

Oh, and high post count helps ensure that the person isn't going to sign up for beta testing and then just disapear one day. Obviously, it doesn't mean everything though.

Cookie.
November 7, 2005, 4:52 pm
"Simple. People get to test the beta if we think they're capable of finding and presenting bugs to Michal/the rest of the beta team."

I got in by bragging to Michal about how hardcore extreme I was :o

"Does team have ANYONE with less than 1000 posts?"
Well at one point I was below 1000 posts, right when I joined the beta ^_^

DePhille
November 7, 2005, 5:09 pm
Pfft this will turn into another flaming at the mods again. Really if anyone isn't happy with them i'd like to have a full list with what would be the best weapon balance and 10 lines why (i bet you will already forget Cluster nades or Flamed bow and that you'd copy/paste and just say 'this is good' wthat isn't 10 lines) , i also would like a list with all the bugs (and i bet you won't find half of what the betatesters found) , also send me explanations of how to solve them. My E-Mail address is DePhille at Gmail dot com and i have lots of space free so send it to me. Stop flaming and go shoot parts of people on Soldat instead , this has already caused one casualty so far (Demonic) and i hope you know what you are doing. This applies for everyone with only flame-comments.

Back to the topic:
That post count is nothing. I have 300 posts and i have done more for the comunity than an average 500 post did (i guess).

@DJ-Sagi: Very simple no to that; people are complaining about lag , adding a 4KB/s uprate for each player and more than extra 10KB/s downrate will completely ruin the pings.

@ElGat0 and VodkaZombie: Being popular isn't a necessity at all but having experience with the community is. After all betatesters will try to find the best balance for the public , even though they may not feel good with it themselves. Those 'Few Tweaks' will cause other 'few Tweaks' and after all they'll end up being huge updates so such stuff really needs be thought over more than 10 times. i agree with your IRC statemnt and actually don't see why it is mentioned as being the vet channel , i'm there because MSN only supports 150 contacts and mIRC is a public-chat where the rest of Soldat ppl is. Also i don't like the word newbs , new players are the future of Soldat and betatesters balance the weapons especilly for them to stay addicted for a longer time.

I give everyone the right to personally rape every next person that uses 'Post Count' or 'Time Registered' as a key prove for their explanations. It doesn't matter anything.

PS: Let's stop annoying the betatesters ok? do that in PM so they can filter and delete it.

grtz , DePhille

Deleted User
November 7, 2005, 8:52 pm
quote:Originally posted by DePhille
@ElGat0 and VodkaZombie: Being popular isn't a necessity at all but having experience with the community is. After all betatesters will try to find the best balance for the public , even though they may not feel good with it themselves. Those 'Few Tweaks' will cause other 'few Tweaks' and after all they'll end up being huge updates so such stuff really needs be thought over more than 10 times. i agree with your IRC statemnt and actually don't see why it is mentioned as being the vet channel , i'm there because MSN only supports 150 contacts and mIRC is a public-chat where the rest of Soldat ppl is. Also i don't like the word newbs , new players are the future of Soldat and betatesters balance the weapons especilly for them to stay addicted for a longer time.



First of all I agree on the dislike for the word "newb", hence the quotations, but I added it because most of the people I notice who throw it around are either idiots or the skilled players in this community. Skilled being the "vets" or otherwise well known people around here and in soldat. They(as I see it) are usually the ones to disregard a comment by someone they don't know and therefor don't have a fair view on the publics idea of balance. Im not accusing the beta testers of being like this though, the only ones I know of seem to be fair and open, im just saying if new ones are to be picked then don't go by popularity. It won't work.


And as a side comment I probably should get IRC....

The Geologist
November 7, 2005, 9:26 pm
I nominate myself to be a beta tester soley on my 1000+ post count and massive ego. Oh, and the people...the people, they love me.

Ok
November 8, 2005, 6:01 am
Jee's.
You create a weapons balance forums, to deal with weapons balance, and in every corner you get the same ppl yelling "leave it alone and fix the bugs".
You don't need a forum for bug fixing. I do believe there is already a place to report them.

Now back on topic, weapons balance is ok, MUCH better then 1.2.1 that's for sure.
This was a huge mistake in the first place, there aren't many options really.
Most old players, (some actualy posted here) will laugh at your face if you'll ask them to invest their time in beta testing.
The only ones that actualy wants to do it, are those newer players, thos eager ones.
Now the problem is, if you let them handle it, you most likely to get a version that they will own in it, then after a while they'll get sick with soldat and disapear from the face of the earth. (*caugh* Cbble *caugh*)
The general opinion towords the weapons balance most of the time comes from the question "Do I own?"
Yes- Then weapons balance is perfect
No- Then weapons balance is [CENSORED]e (then most likley whines towords his favourit weapon will start)

I doubt soldat will get any better, its obvious the ppl who supported soldat (technicly) are no longer interested in doing it with the same passion.
One of them is our dear old MM.
I can't blame him really, more then 3 years he's been wasting him time (ALOT OF IT) on this game. only to hear ppl [CENSORED] and whine about everything he's done without even offering a helping hand.

The Soldat community is self maintained, which means it depends on its comunity, that's why you're not going to see alot of developments soon. and they are going to create mayhem of opinions and alot of frustration and with time a smaller community.

Open beta testing is not a good idea, its a just the best there is atm.
Instead of whining about bugs (which are going to be dealt with regardless to the balance) try to be more productive , its obvious the balance is not perfect, it will never be, saying it is , just shows how little that person really know soldat and its potential.
Saying "Just leave it alone" is not only useless, its also damaging the proccess.

Captain Ben
November 8, 2005, 6:07 am
quote:Originally posted by The GeologistI nominate myself to be a beta tester soley on my 1000+ post count and massive ego. Oh, and the people...the people, they love me.


<3

Cookie.
November 8, 2005, 6:11 am
quote:Originally posted by The GeologistI nominate myself to be a beta tester soley on my 1000+ post count and massive ego. Oh, and the people...the people, they love me.


You forgot teh massive epenis \o/

DePhille
November 8, 2005, 3:56 pm
Quite heavy Post Ok :P
Those public weapon balance thing is a very good idea and it should stay.
The problem is that people over here take things way too serious , if you can't handle whining you shouldn't be a beta-tester , 75% of what you will hear is whining , probably more. Like i've said before , Happy people won't come in and act happy , angry people will. If you don't beleive i got one simple prove: Soldat itself. If the beta testers would do a bad job Soldat wouldn't exist , as long as Soldat exists people are happy.
I agree with the people saying "Leave it" that those are damaging the process. But as a beta-tester or any person that has some importance it's necessary to just leave those comments alone.
The weapon balance won't be perfect but it will always improve , if you say that the weapon balance wouldn't improve anymore i got a prove for that too: Why are we still calculating Pi then? we already know a whole lot numbers of it and we still get more numbers.
Not everyone will laugh in your face if you ask them to do beta-testing. I won't atleast , just because i like being part of the community. And i think others would like that too. It's just very hard to find people that really mean it but so far it succeeded.

Much of the stuff Ok posted is reality but i think it's one of the tasks of the beta testers to ignore such comments and filter them for what the forum is intended for: SUGGESTIONS and IMPROVEMENTS not flaming.

Grtz , DePhille

Deleted User
November 8, 2005, 6:45 pm
People... let's just imagine what it would be like without the
testers. MM would have to do everything himself. And the weapon
balance would probably really suck. (No offense to MM).

Do you know how much longer it would take? Not to mention the fact that he camps with a chainsaw :P.

I think these people should be thanked, not whined upon. Jesus, everything they do gets flamed. Perhaps we should drop this topic and let THEM, the EXPERIENCED ones, talk to MM, and then they will decide if a change is needed or not. And for those people who are supporting this crap for the sole reason that you hate the current weapon balance, go away, and give thanks to those who have helped and supported Soldat.

Cookie.
November 8, 2005, 9:30 pm
quote:Originally posted by ZamorakPeople... let's just imagine what it would be like without the
testers. MM would have to do everything himself. And the weapon
balance would probably really suck. (No offense to MM).

Do you know how much longer it would take? Not to mention the fact that he camps with a chainsaw :P.

I think these people should be thanked, not whined upon. Jesus, everything they do gets flamed. Perhaps we should drop this topic and let THEM, the EXPERIENCED ones, talk to MM, and then they will decide if a change is needed or not. And for those people who are supporting this crap for the sole reason that you hate the current weapon balance, go away, and give thanks to those who have helped and supported Soldat.



No the Barret would probably have 100 rounds and shoot rapid fire heat seaking bullets, and the chainsaw would make you invisible with more heat seeking action!!

Bugs Revenge
November 11, 2005, 2:04 am
quote:Originally posted by -Claw-Does team have ANYONE with less than 1000 posts? or does it have ANYONE in active clan? Does it have ANYONE who really is active and wants to do more than be a pround member of beta team?

Yes, me. 90% of my posts are in the beta forums, I ain't active at other forums..
And yes, there are some other people without so many posts in the forums which are ACTIVE and with an ACTIVE CLAN. (I play a lot of clanwars, gathers etc. so yeah I know what am I talking about)

about the activity? you'r talking about people who have been testing the betas for a long time, so for sure some would become inactive since of studying, army etc.

So yeah, we need some more betatesters and we will find the best for it, don't worry, they wouldn't be only from the forums.

Btw, some beta testers do suggest things to be added *G* Bunny Ears */G* but mostly MM need to fix bugs and add some more important things..

and the last thing, we have been working on the weapon ballance for too long time..
As you can see 1.3's ballance is realy good.. (without the mp5) I can't say there's a weapon that indeed "overpowered".
we just now got to a point that we couldn't agree inteam and we haven't had enough active betatesters so we've decided to make it public..
You can be sure that we would get enough betatesters for now on :)

And now you'r asking yourself : "if they were testing this version and any other version, why are there so many bugs?"
Well, MM is always adding some more stuff, trying to fix some more bugs, you know how it's working..
So yeah, we report most of the bugs and most of them actualy are fixed thanks to him, but when fixing some there most likely be some new bugs.. that's why in this version there'r some new bugs, coz we couldn't even test them before the release, ppl are to eager to get it and MM + beta team were eager to release it.
There are some other bugs that can't be fixed (like mentioned already) and some other minor bugs that it's too complicated to fix them that it doesn't worth the time it takes..

And no, BETA TESTERS DON'T NEED ANY KNOWLEDGE AT CODDING, MM is doing it. we just testing and searching for bugs.

Ok
November 11, 2005, 3:34 am
You're such a noob bugs, its amazing.
Now go to work! and fix the bugs! learn delphy if needed!!!!

Echo_Trail
November 11, 2005, 7:37 pm
dude, what kindo [CENSORED] is that to say..?
did u even read the guys post? I might not agree with it, with having the public doing the beta testing, but he's just revealing his opinion.. God, why all these prejudices?!?!
anyway, beta testing is a must, but i, agreeing with bugs, think that it should be done by active users.. most of'em at least...
echo out