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Magnitude Meter (2 proposals)
Soldat Forums - Soldat Talk - Game Improvements / Suggestions
Famine
November 6, 2005, 8:33 pm
First I would like to address the independent matter of this purposal.

Simply that the knife, like grenades, can be throw with variable forces depending on how long you hold the "F"/Throw key down. This would add much more of a skill to the knife, rather than just having one preset force. Of course, the range increases with power, but it takes time.

The second purposal is to add a "meter" for these forces. So when the button "E" or "F" is depressed, a small meter shows the changes in the force.

.Loki
November 10, 2005, 12:00 am
hmm. interesting idea. I'm not extremely for or against this idea. It would probably end up being more of a disadvantage for the knife, and I think losing it after throwing is enough of a disadvantage itself. However, it would also make the knife more versatile, which would be an advantage.

The meter I think is cool though. Would be nice if it was similar to the one in worms games (meter comes out from gun to the direction you are aiming in). Just as long as it isn't too obstructive of the things around you.

Yuth
November 10, 2005, 12:12 am
Knife should be thrown as the grenade.
Although the meter thing wouldn't be necessary.

This is a good suggestion *Thumb Up*

Deleted User
November 10, 2005, 2:08 am
My sentiments toward the toss-knife-like-a-grenade thing is pretty much the same a .Loki's; It'd make it harder for the knifer to blithely toss the thing at people, but at the same time it would offer a level of versatility that is currently lacking, since the knifer would have more control over where the knife goes. It'd also be nice if it affected speed to an extent too, so you would have to try stabbing someone instead of just hitting the toss key when in real close quarters, and you'd be able to drop the knife without accidentally killing a teammate or something in friendly-fire games.

It's something I could live without, but it'd be great if it were thrown in.

Deleted User
November 10, 2005, 3:41 am
i agree with this to a degree, no meter though what is this a frekin golf game

Captain Ben
November 10, 2005, 6:06 am
quote:Originally posted by Taali agree with this to a degree, no meter though what is this a frekin golf game

Deleted User
November 10, 2005, 11:38 am
this isnt really needed


Famine
November 11, 2005, 2:04 am
The meter isn't, but the main focus was the knife. I just had the idea while thinking up the knife. Since they were related, better to save space.

Deleted User
November 11, 2005, 2:26 am
I like the instant-sling action of the knife. You don't charge it. There is no "power bar", you just fling the galvanized, stainless steel action into some (edited) guy's face (or back) and he's dead.

Lay off my knife. No offense.

vash763
November 11, 2005, 8:09 am
quote:Originally posted by Captain Benquote:Originally posted by Taali agree with this to a degree, no meter though what is this a frekin golf game


Captain Ben
November 11, 2005, 9:09 am
I'm kind off torn between this. It's a love hate relationship. I don't want major changes to the much loved knife, but there needs to be a degree of skill that stops it being so over used.

Screw that! There's already a smallish windup time.

EDIT: Lapis-Baby! Where you been?!

Deleted User
November 11, 2005, 1:16 pm
I never left.

Keron Cyst
November 11, 2005, 4:20 pm
It really shouldn't actually -show- a meter, tho'... oO'

Deleted User
November 11, 2005, 4:50 pm
Nooo!!!Don't screw up the knife...

Leave it, or face the public....

Deleted User
November 11, 2005, 8:20 pm
Yeah, I don't really like this idea. It could possibly mess the knife up.

zyxstand
November 11, 2005, 9:28 pm
meter thing isn't really a real-time-2d-shooter thingy... then again, soldat itself defines what a real-time-2d-shooter is supposed to be like sincie it basically is the only (good) one. and please don't make it so that when you have knife out pressing 'e' will throw knife instead of nade... i still like to use my nades with knife!
but overall i dislike all parts of this idea mainly because it takes skills in itself to use the knife (except for close combat). In real life, if a person is in front of you and you just whipped out your knife, would you really take 3 seconds to fully "charge" the knife and then fire it?
Here's a better arguement:
With the grenade, one would have reason to make a short toss rather than a far throw. With the knife, you always want to give it throw it as strong as possible since you want to be doing the most damage...
seriously, how would it be more realistic to have to charge up a knife to throw it further? there already is a .25 second long charge-up-time when you press 'f' during which, you can assume, the soldat moves his arm back for more arch.

Deleted User
November 11, 2005, 10:05 pm
Knife is only overused because m72 LAW got nerfed.
m79 is only overused because all the auto's and deagles got nerfed.

Famine
November 12, 2005, 12:50 am
quote:seriously, how would it be more realistic to have to charge up a knife to throw it further?

Of course, I forgot the Law of Prolonged Holding only applies to grenades and rocks. We all know that The Time (T) is DIRECTLY related to the strength of the throw (S)

^T ^S

Sorry for defying reality. Point is, it DOES take time to bring your arm back and throw then it in just to bring it half way.

Michal
November 12, 2005, 1:04 am
I think it's a good idea.
I'd like a visual meter but I don't think we need a new one, it would be possible to use that little "fire bar" since it's normally inactive until after the throw.

psst I think the word you are looking for is proposal ;]

Famine
November 12, 2005, 3:21 am
Thank you for pointing those things out, fixed the typo.

Your idea is much better, of course.

zyxstand
November 12, 2005, 5:26 am
quote:Originally posted by Faminequote:seriously, how would it be more realistic to have to charge up a knife to throw it further?

Of course, I forgot the Law of Prolonged Holding only applies to grenades and rocks. We all know that The Time (T) is DIRECTLY related to the strength of the throw (S)

^T ^S

Sorry for defying reality. Point is, it DOES take time to bring your arm back and throw then it in just to bring it half way.


excuse me, but if you pay close attention you can see that when you press 'f' with knife it does take a fraction of a second till he throws the knife. i said that before but you obviously ignored that part. try it yourself! take a knife and hold it as if your about to stab something (thumb-side up like in soldat). then see how long it takes you to pull back (not necessarily all the way) and throw it at a wall. i'm sure that in real life to get a really far throw (with full-body-arch motion) you can throw it further than (relatively speaking) a soldat does in-game. remember, this is a simple combat-knife, not some extraoridnarily big/heavy machete.

Note:
I will not be held responsible for any property damage, injury to any person (including yourself), animal or otherwise non-stated object of recognizable value. If you do injure yourself I will be (unwillingly) forced to laugh out loud (more popularily known as "lol"). In the event of medical attention requiring injury or property damage of over $100, i will be forced to laugh my a** off (otherwise known as "lmao")

Famine
November 12, 2005, 5:09 pm
If you going for realism, why are grenades and knives not similar?

zyxstand
November 12, 2005, 8:00 pm
because you always want to throw a knife as strongly as possible to do the most damage. However, with the grenade, damage is not dependent on how strongly you throw the grenade. and short distance is often preferred, esp. if you just want to roll the knife a soldat-meter or so in front of you.
understood?

MisterX
November 12, 2005, 9:04 pm
Well, the idea is actually rather old now. I made a topic about a similiar idea quite some time ago, and there were useless discussions about it, about 8 pages long. It was also discussed in the beta forums pretty often and long.

Anyway, I totally agree. The knife has be nerfed in some way, now that the LAW is this nice, balanced weapon. And a chargeup-time like this would just be the right way to nerf it. Another idea is to simply increase the time it takes you to take out the knife. Might also work. But at least one of those has be in the next version, definitely.

Stern
November 13, 2005, 4:42 am
There's a simple way of solving most of your problems. If you just pressed and didn't hold the throw knife button, you would throw it like you do now. If you held it down, you could throw it with more force. There would be no bar, and the force of the throw would be harder the longer you held the key down (up to a point). We wouldn't want anyone throwing a knife all the way across the map for a spawn kill or something lucky.

Deleted User
November 13, 2005, 6:25 am
quote:Originally posted by FamineIf you going for realism, why are grenades and knives not similar?


Because, soldat is not realistic...

MrPete
November 13, 2005, 6:31 pm
Tell you what I'd prefer?

Ability to hold the grenade after pin has been let out.

Pros: Ability to control range & Killing

Cons: Cant shoot while ready to throw (or maybe really badly inaccurate)vunerability if you're waiting for jsust the right timing.

Standard in most FPS' simply because it's so gosh darn useful.

$0.02.

zyxstand
November 13, 2005, 7:04 pm
uhm, welcome MrPete to the soldat forums!

i agree with MrPete.

Famine
November 14, 2005, 4:12 am
First of MrPete and zyxstand, the only reason I brought up realism is because you entered it into the debate. Second, the reason for it is not realism, but to make it more complex. It takes time to bring back your arm, and I know it takes a bit, but this would make it more diverse.

MrPete, read before you post.