Before I even write something:
Warning: This is a HUGE post! if you don't like reading alot! don't read it AT ALL!Well, I've been thinking alot about my "feeling" towords soldat.
Couldn't quite put my finger on it, on a way to understand the frustration. and why it exist today when it didn't before.

I asked myself, "maybe I feel frustated and unsatisfied because I don't get to own as much as I did"
But then 2 things happen:
1- I remember the past when I got owned alot yet still enjoyed the game
2- I play a game , own it and still feel frustrated.

I was wondering for quite a while, untill my lovely biatch Chakra and I had a nice talk and he said this:
(04:05:24) (~Chakra) ...ahh it was kinda fun for a while....but it just became a struggle more than a game in the end didn't it..

But then I remembered the old times when there we campers and the usual ass-holes and so on.
Then he said this:
(04:11:26) (~Chakra) pretty much all there is to it guv
(04:11:41) (~Chakra) s'always been like that really, but you could persevere to a degree, and there was always interesting people to play with or talk to
(04:11:51) (~Chakra) now though? ...meh....ever since 2wai died it's never been the same for me
(04:12:11) (~Chakra) theres no group of people that are mature and have interesting things to talk about


This it hit me, that's the problem.
I remember myself coming back home from the army all tense from the crap I've been through during the day, and really tired.
then coming home, and not even taking off my uniform, just sitting infront of the comp , opening my belt and having a game of Deathmatch.
After I was done, I got up all relaxed and had this nice feeling of satisfaction, and that had nothing to do with the result what so ever, I could end up last as much as I cared.

Then I joined a clan, and I rememeber alot of cw's that my clan got owned in when I actualy enjoyed the game so much that I talked about it with my mates.
It just got better and better with time as I got better and got into better clans, met nice ppl and got to talk to them and have fun with them.

It climaxed around 1.2.1, I guess that before it came, the game required some time to be good at so all those "I own jo [CENSORED]er" n00bs had to play alot untill they actualy got into the real soldat world and by then they grew up a bit, matures, understood the nature of the community and so on..
1.2.1 changed that.
And today all those nice ppl, those mature ppl who ran things in the community, who made things FOR the community, are gone, driven away by all those new commmers who just turned everything into [CENSORED]e.

Today we have a community that is controled by kids who can and will pay for stuff just to satisfy their hunger for power, kids who will invest hours in programing just to get recgnition from other and get some power of their own.
Kids who will do anything to start their own thing because they're so immature they won't enjoy something you make, they prefer to make somethign similiar and try to take "revenge" on those who ignored them before.

Just like the real world, kids create a chain of popularity that is determined by biased factors.

And eventualy those who enjoyed just having a proper game of soldat now face a huge sturggle before every game and after it.

And sure, soldat sucks, its full of bugs.
Sure if in the old days you had only campers, today u have cheaters, nade jumpers, sprayers, whiners and just the usual "boom head shot" moron.

We had some of those as well, we had the campers, they were everywhere. didn't bother everyone that much, u just knew that and just dealt with it.

Its not that, its the fact that this community is made out of kids, immature kids to that matter.
In the past I got online and had a game.
Today I have a struggle.
I'm sturgling to have a gather without someone calling me a "[CENSORED]ing jew die"
Then I struggle to explain why it is wrong to say that...
then I have to explain why seeing this in a channel bothers me:

(20:02:22) (+######) http://www.resist.com/CARTOON%20GALLERY/KIKES/jews_image24.jpg

or this:
(01:15:09) (+########) jews always stick their noses into places they dont need to

I'm struggling to get a gather where I get to play a balanced game , and not a 2vs3 crap when u see the third player just wondering around in some unkown part of the map.

I'm sturggling to get into a public without any cheaters on it, or someone that will curse u becase u just happened to kill him for the first time.

I'm struggling to find a channel where ppl discuss other stuff then who came first in their CTF game, or who's mamma's is the hottest.. or seeing 2 idiots calling each other names and spamming a channel.
or seeing someon admin declairing war (for real) because he thinks someone else is smarter. and so on...

the beta testing team was made out of expirienced players who wanted to help soldat improve.
Today its made out of ppl who just want to consider themself special and just do anything BUT their jobs.

Its a kiddies world now, and you're invited to flame all you want.
Back in the days ppl made things for the community, today ppl make things so they will be able to control it themselfs and have the freedom to do what they want.

Its just a struggle more then it is a game.... and that's all there is to it for now.

Its so easy to get a good stable server that provides good pings.
Its so easy to get hosting for your clan's website.
Its so easy to find a well orginized league or cup.

But does that help if all you find is a crap community that is made and controled by frustrated little kids that take out all their anger and frustration on anyone who dares challanging their mighty power.

quote:Are you begging for this?
Man if you wanna play hard - Lets do it.

I used to enjoy playing soldat, today I'm just doing it to pass time when need because I'm used to it and starting a new game is just too time consuming.
I wish I could say I'm sick of the game, but I'm not, I still enjoy the game itself. its just that the pricks makes it more a struggle then a game.

Oh well...

I totally agree...

Nowadays I mute the enemy teams if I'm playing A FCW, scrim or whatever

quote:kids who will invest hours in programing just to get recgnition from other and get some power of their own.

Damn Noddy!

sorry, but i'm a 1.2 noob, so i can't sympathize.

although i have seen a lot of this:

[major] HEADSHOT O YEA
[major] tmy grama can play bettr dan u!!!11
[yourself] o yea?
[major] tyea!
[yourself] i knowt he person who bogt this servah aned hes gonna shhot u im leik 7 feet tal
yourself has left the game.
[major] o crap hes gona kill me
major has left the game and run under his bed.

i don't blame you for getting bored.

You just took all the random thoughts I've had about soldat over the years and printed them in a readable manner for me.

Now I feel like [CENSORED].. now I feel like soldat wont ever be good again..

What we need.. is another SuS... another system that has a team of moderators that allow gateway for certain players and THOSE players only. I'm sure SOMEONE could create something such as an IP checker that allows you in the server, so if some [CENSORED]head decides to give out the password, the noobs that join will be auto kicked based on their IP

(In case you didn't know, that was a cry to Flieslikeabrick to bring back Sus and make it 10x better. Because it worked, and we loved it.)

quote:Originally posted by Runequote:kids who will invest hours in programing just to get recgnition from other and get some power of their own.

Damn Noddy!


noddy doesnt program, he scripts, but nice try.
He's also one of the only ppl left in soldat who actualy does what he does to help out.
He's barely even here to get any thanks and doesnt even play soldat anymore.

I don't completely agree. The few things I disagree with are the ways you describe the individuals in the community, especially those of us who have "control."

I must say that I am not very productive in the Soldat community, and though I want it to improve, it seems I'm not giving it my effort. I don't know why this is, and I apologize. However, I don't think it is fair for you to tell me that I'm a frustrated little kid who takes out all of his anger on all that wish to challenge my "mighty power." I may not be the most productive or hard-working person here, but I know how to respect people, I'd say, and I do most of the things I do because I know that it will help at least one person within the community.

I hope I'm not completely misinterpreting your post. I do agree with you, though, that Soldat frustrates me a lot more than it used to back in 1.1.5. Also, the fun in being around people is pretty much gone now, excluding a select few.

Edit: By the way, Ok, thank you for the entertaining posts. It's nice to see that someone thinks outside the norm every once in a while.

(04:01:14) (Bubbathehut) there are some of the old community in the soldat forum community
(04:01:26) (Bubbathehut) some more mature kids there
(04:01:45) (~Chakra) yeah....long gone days though now


Which is funny, because I always saw the most stupid posts and most stupid comments in these forums.
Today this is the only place to find anything near sainity..

And I tell you, its not because this place got any better.
I never encountered anything bad from the moderators in this forums.
But then again I never told an admin here that I think he should let someone else do else do the thinking and scripting because he's better at it ;)

Again, I come from 1.2.1, so im not old to the scene, but...

I recall my old 1.2.1 days, back to the deathmatches, walking in every day and competing for that first place, that gold medal of accomplishment waiting there for me. I used barret as my first gun, and I took pride in never missing, in my flawless strategy I devised from playing against bots, and playing against other players with it. Back then, I dont think I was ever angered over anything, Soldat was just too much fun. I never did make that spot using a barret, but I had all too much fun trying. I dreamt about soldat, I got back home from school, looking forward to a nice game of soldat, all that good stuff.

The first time I was ever called a "noob" for barretarding, was from Revolver Ocelot. I was just in a death match, competing with him for that spot, and I killed him with a barret shot. I got an instant "Barret Noob" comment. Of course, I raised an eyebrow and was completely oblivious to such a comment. Shortly after, I decided to try out deagling, being inspired by players such as Morik, Yozizzo, more deaglers I cant think of. After weeks of practicing, playing DM's a few times every now and then, I began winning.

Unfortanately, the Barret seemed to be the gun that casted a shield around my soon to come immaturity, as you mentioned, and Ill admit it, I was one of those super immature moronic kids for a long time before I decided id shut the [CENSORED] up. When Using barret, playing against other barrets and m79s seemed like good competition over against other weapons. With deagles, I had a harder time against them, and they always seemed like on obstacle. The more I won, the more they ticked me off. I guess, I just got more into winning over competition. At this point, i started playing capture the flag. I was at the point ANY death from an m79 or barret, I was instantly call them a noob, and barrage them with immature insults.

[You have been killed by JJxFFsomething...!]
[Extacide] Omfg, you [CENSORED]ing barret noob
[JJxFFsomething....] stfu
[Extacide] Stfu? You want to 1v1 you [CENSORED]ing noob?

Thats how bad I was...I was 100% convinced anyone who dared to touch those guns was a noob. I decided about a month ago id stop the noob calling. Well, I toned it down to the point of saying lame after every death to them or noob after killing me periodicly. The [CENSORED]ing interfered with my clanning, and gave me a horrible reputation, as a cocky, arrogant whiner, which still follows me. Just recently, I just finally decided to not even talk at all, or atleast never comment on any death, along with mute anyone whom I find to be annoying, rather then argue with them.

The funny thing, as of recent, I dont feel so blood thirsty over a death to them...its just, "Yeah, I died, whatever." Infact, just the other day, It felt like my early days of deagling, with extremely fun competition, testing my new found skills. The WHOLE server was using deagles, all people I never heard of, oldies ive never played with and were exceptionally good, along with people I knew pretty well. It felt, "fun" again. No frustration, none of that.

So with this long sad story, I just want to apologize. Apologize, for any whining, complaining, excusing, b*tching, all of the immature bullcrap I gave everyone I ever met. I totally feel the same with OK, about the community now, noticing all the immaturity going around, and myself being one of those major contributors. I hope, people can just look at me as what I am now, rather then what I was....

I was joking (eventhough mIRC scripting ~ programming). But I have to agree, it sucks that some of the really kewl people like Cbble left because of the community.

And of course there is more kids now than before. Soldat is an evil addicting game, so there is more people who start playing it than people who quit it for good. So if you really hate it, you should quit now or learn to live with it. :I

So none of you have ever really been interested in Realistic mode? :o It's different, not much, but it is. Maybe you just need something a bit different.

Im from 1.2.1 and I totally agree with you, I may not have the past to compare it to but I desperetly search everyday for a decent place to play. I hate being called a n00b just for killing some one, its stupid and little comments like that start to piss me off after a minute or so. The only places I can possibly get a good game the lag turns out to be crazy to the point where everyone leaves.

@Meep-Realistic mode isnt hardly better at all. I have been banned from like 5-6 different RS servers for "hacking" or "too noob", when all I really did was piss people off by killing them. Even the admins from most of these servers are complete [CENSORED]s.

U guys like long posts don't you. That is to much for me to take in.

Dezonus don't spam. any further spam in this thread will be deleted and I will tell the admin about it.

This doesn't mean I agree with everything that Ok said, I just don't want to see this thread go to crap.

I agree that many people are too immature to join something already in existence, they'd rather start their own.

But what you said about people programming for hours just for recognition, that is completely untrue. Please give me an example of someone programming just to get power of their own. If people program for more than 10 mins, it happens for one of a couple reasons, or more than one:

1) they are doing it to be helpful, to provide a service that either does not exist.
2) they are doing it for their own education, experience, or sense of acknowledgement.
3) they are doing it because someone gave them an idea and they ran with it.

I don't see how someone can program just for power. I'd really like an example of that and a better explanation of what you mean.


edit: and the fact is that tons of people whine, or create really long "not-whining" threads, but in fact those people don't do a damned thing to try and help the situation.

I often find that some of the best opponents are found outside of the community. Screw irc and this forum if you want someone fun to play with.
I'll sometimes find abnormally skilled players on public servers, and sometimes I won't, but the best way to have fun in this game is to play some LAN games with people you know. Not only will the games be better, but what happens after the game will indefinitely be more fun; going out somewhere, or playing other games, or whatever, compared to a slight sense of dissatisfaction and putting your hand down your pants.

On a different note, I find the irony in your sig amusing.

Ok, nothing will be same as it used to be.
Grow up, accept the changes that have occured, and deal with it.
You cant do anything that will persuade the vast new comers to change, accept it.
If you cant acknowledge the fact that the game changes as time progresses, then maybe this game, the community and all it stands for is nt for you.
Move on if you dont fit, just move on.

quote:Originally posted by OkToday we have a community that is controled by kids who can and will pay for stuff just to satisfy their hunger for power, kids who will invest hours in programing just to get recgnition from other and get some power of their own.
Kids who will do anything to start their own thing because they're so immature they won't enjoy something you make, they prefer to make somethign similiar and try to take "revenge" on those who ignored them before.]


I know there are a LOT of immature people out there but that doesn?t mean that all of us new comers are like that >:-(

I'm very sorry that I joined during 1.2.1, If I joined at 0.9.4b I would obviously have had a higher mental age O_o

quote:Originally posted by FliesLikeABrickDezonus don't spam. any further spam in this thread will be deleted and I will tell the admin about it.

This doesn't mean I agree with everything that Ok said, I just don't want to see this thread go to crap.

I agree that many people are too immature to join something already in existence, they'd rather start their own.

But what you said about people programming for hours just for recognition, that is completely untrue. Please give me an example of someone programming just to get power of their own. If people program for more than 10 mins, it happens for one of a couple reasons, or more than one:

1) they are doing it to be helpful, to provide a service that either does not exist.
2) they are doing it for their own education, experience, or sense of acknowledgement.
3) they are doing it because someone gave them an idea and they ran with it.

I don't see how someone can program just for power. I'd really like an example of that and a better explanation of what you mean.


edit: and the fact is that tons of people whine, or create really long "not-whining" threads, but in fact those people don't do a damned thing to try and help the situation.


I know you as a very sensative guy, thus I won't take it personaly.
If you want names, this isn't the place for it.
And god knows I've done more then just whining inorder to make this community a better place.

Well, don't have much to say there guv, my quotes say it all...
Just [CENSORED]em..

Ok, so are you saying that you refuse to support you opinion on that? Unsupported claims are about as good as stuff that comes out of my ass

how I feel sad...
I hear you, and i really feel alot of it.

I agree in it being hard to find servers where ppl just play for the fun of it, and most of this forum is ruled by underaged.
Hard, but not impossible, hombré.. and the forums? well, there might be alot of morons on here, but that's not the only ppl on here!
The thing is, it get's harder and harder to find a place where true soldat fans can just talk about soldat, and you don't have to listen to all kinds of crap from everyone!
I know i'm no saint in all this! I'm in a crappy mood sometimes as well! But i wish there was still somewhere you could go, and get the feeling of a serious community!

I'd like to quote a, no doubt, loyal and true fan of soldat: "the soldat community has become stale".. And by the Powers, it has!
It's really sad how the "veterans" seem to fade away, slowly as time takes its turn.
I've played soldat for about 2 years now, but i hardly know anything about programming or nothing! i truely am a newcomer. Those who used to be in front, guiding the rest of us.. are gone! not many remains..
and that's sad! just lately i learned of things like xfire, and even this forum. All i've been doing this time, has been playing soldat!

I would like it, if someone could tell what tools are needed in order to really get organized!.. i see how this most likely would be abused, but really, no one seems to know anything! and those remaining who does, are simply too fed up with ppl being jerks and all..
Sorry "oldies", but you seem kinda burned out! - and who could blame you?
If someone could just pass on the knowledge.. I'm not saying it should be passed on to me, 'cause i most likely wouldn't be able to figure it out anyway.. (you see, i'm quite an idiot with computers!), but someone who knows a great deal about keeping things organized!
Perhaps we could awaken a the soirit back.. for some at least! I think many feels "left behind", and therefor don't really give a [CENSORED] about anything!
I'm reletively "fresh", and i have this great "fascination" about soldat in itself, but many seems to have lost it, or maybe they were never introduced?

Anyways, this post really made me think of things! i hope ppl will start showing this a little more respect, before this is all completely ruined, 'cause that's where we're heading!

I'd like to thank you for posting this..
Nick a.k.a echo_trail

So...is it important for us to know or something?

I agree... Although... I'm not the one to talk in threads like these.

quote:Originally posted by FliesLikeABrickOk, so are you saying that you refuse to support you opinion on that? Unsupported claims are about as good as stuff that comes out of my ass


I'm saying that I refuse to turn this into a flame war by mentioning names.
Also trying to finger point each and every one, is kinda irrational.
It will require waaaay to many fingers.

Heh, that jew joke is actually the only jew joke I laughed at ever, that's why I posted it. If you can't even laugh at your nations expense, then I'm sorry for you :).
Also it's funny how you point out one thing I've pasted, as an example. There's loads of more "disturbing" things said everywhere daily, yet when I paste a link to a funny picture(yes, it doesn't matter who or what it concerns, it IS funny, and it was pasted so peoeple can get a nice laugh, if anything, not to mock the jews), you paste it in your long whine.
Also it's disturbing since that shows me as someone that dislikes jews and insults them. I don't do that, infact, I have nothing against the jews. How many times in our many arguements, have I ever lowered myself to the level that you criticise in your post, to insult you in ways of "stupid jew" or "cocksucker" or alike?

Really, you could have found much better "examples" to your "point".

Yea I really should have taken out the nicks, since it really doesnt matter who says it.
Its wrong either way.
I'll do it now, though maybe its too late.

Sure theres problems in the community, can't disagree with that. I left a community that was having a bright future and got back to what was looking like a pie throwing contest between people. My theory is that Soldat is a young game, still growing up and needs parenting, which today I see very little of. So there is a borderless world in the community where no laws reign. Thats also a perfect reason to why it continues to grow into this direction. Michael from what I know (or what I read on the soldat page) haven't made any statements where he choose to side with a policy, hence why some moderators/operators or those who are able to control the community in a way don't know which way they should cooperate for, so they move towards different directions making no progress. There are alot of straws to pull to the hive before the community will be worthy like it once was. And it runs alot deeper than just verbal abuse over MIRC or ingame, so it will take alot to reestablish what once was.

But then again, its often that people claim things were better before, just because it was new, and the memories were new. Even memories have to change, you'll grow, everything else will change around you, for better or for worse. What is today for some are their new memories that they will have in a year, maybe they love it as it is. Maybe it would be better for some of the old to consider leaving, or as veterans, not try to enforce their first memories, but rather try to make the new players memories the best possible.

Quite true luv, quite true. Still, I must question: how would you go about directing an entire community in a good direction, if what we remember as 'the good old days' weren't just our times as new players in an overly-fond mood for Soldat?
After all it's not a physical attribute we're discussing here, such as soldat gather, which in itself has lead a small portion of the community into it's own domain, allowing a relatively higher-standard of gaming as a refuge from both serious clan wars and public gaming.
Talking about enforcing a standard of decency, whether through subtle manipulation, demonstration by more mature players, or an army of rather strict admins. As grand a notion as it is, I ain't got the foggiest how anyone could go about it.

Well without reading anything but what you wrote Ok I cant help but ask you why you play? I mean Soldat is a game, games are meant to be fun, the last game I played online for over 2 years I ended up quiting for the same reasons you listed and a few others.

Although I probably havent been playing Soldat aslong as you(been playing since 1.1.5), Ok, I can still kind of see where you are coming from. But I guess nothing can last forever, people have to move on, they can only play and enjoy Soldat for a certain ammount of time, until something more important occurs or is going to occur (exams, uni etc.), but your claim that all the great players have been driven away by 'new commers' and have damaged the Soldat community is untrue. There are many players who have only been around for the past year to a year and a half that are not only great people, but also contribute to the community (I'm thinking The Geologist, Vijtch and Demonic). I guess the only reason why that would go right past you would be because of the recent increase of players coming to the inner community(forums, irc), who tend to be annoying at first and get disliked by the majority.

And on a futher note about racism in Soldat, it's not anything new, everybody is aware (including you) that if someone knows your nationality, that they might throw a few racist comments at you, it's nothing big, I sometimes get [CENSORED] from other players in IRC rooms, but I know that they are just joking, and that it ends at that, infact I'm pretty sure that almost every major race has been mocked on a number of occasions in any IRC room. But those comments are rairly serious comments so really, there is nothing to get offended about.

In conclusion, the Soldat community will never be the same again, because it's no longer as small and as friendly as it used to be, but there are still decent players with great personalities around who are worth spending some time talking to them. Oh and the beta testing team still does choose experienced players, but they would still rather choose a newer smarter player than an experienced arsehole.

Warning!! this is ANOTHER HUGE POST!

You keep talking about an unstoppable change and me wanting the old days.

That's not true, I don't want to have to play on a minimum of 200 pings.
I don't want to have to play 2vs2 on Israelis servers since there are none who can support more.

I want an improvment, and I don't see any improvment.
I don't see the community as much developed when I think about how worse it gotten.

You ask , how do I want the community to look like?
Well I'll give you an example I saw just now:
(+##########) i way better than u kid ;)
(+##########) we see in this game stick` who is the best
(+##########) shut up and die noob :D

You don't know him, this is the greatest movie maker in the soldat community.
He made some amazing movies really!
Nevertheless, this is his way of talking to someone, on most occasions you'll see him greet someone he doesnt like by simply saying:
"you are stupid :D"

Lets take another guy, who is controling that project called Soldat Gather, the same project who welcomes the newbies into the soldat world in many occasions.

Those are 2 examples, oh how newbies are being influenced.
And what do they see? they see a guy acting like a moron 90% of the time, who is respected by the community because he makes movies.
They see some guy who is running a project by his mood of the day banning or kicking or just laughing at those he hates just because he can.

What does it do to the community? I tell you what it does, it tells that new guy who started playing soldat, that he can curse, ban, kick and basicly do anything he wants, IF! he can offer something worthy to those in the power ranks.

Thus you , with time, have a community who is ruled by those kids who just come here to do anything BUT play soldat and ruin the fun for others by making a power hungry dicating athmosphere.

What was different in the "OLD days" is that we didn't have all those things, so respect was gained by either playing very well and fairly, or just being a nice guy.
I don't need to explain how better it makes a community to have those "rules" and "morals".

I don't want the old days because they were the utopia, if I want the old days, its only because they were much better than all the crap there is now.

I'm not talking about a time when I was a newbie, I'm talking about a time when I was known to the community atleast quite well, when I was DEEP into the soldat world.
But back then, if someone started cursing and acting like a jerk, you would see if warned and maybe even kicked for his behvaiour.
One of those great channels was 2wai's channel, that was controled by mature ppl, thus it became the most popular channel in the young soldat community.
Today someone can post crap, spam a main soldat channel with 200 players with curses and racist remarks, and he will not only be left alone , he will be supported and encouraged by admins.

Fact is, soldat has gone immature, don't call it "changing times" because its just went immature, that's all it is, it didn't just change with time.
Because it could change to the better, change doesnt mean the things gone wrose.
And the fact is, you didn't see ppl whining about the community back than, the only whining I can remember is towords the campers.

and that's because when someone said stuff like this:
(+##########) i way better than u kid ;)
(+##########) we see in this game stick` who is the best
(+##########) shut up and die noob :D

ppl just started looking at him different, and the new players saw it, and learned that they'll get more friend by being nice to more ppl, and not just doing stuff for admins or ops.

And I tried, lord knows I tried, when I took over the soldat radio, I did my best to make sure no one will get banned just because one of the admins happens to hate him.
I had fights with some of the admins, and I insisted on everyone's right to be in the channel, and to broadcast if they want even when I myself did not like that person.
Same goes to Hall of Fame.
Both projects were open to the public, the public could vote for it, participate in it.
And when I worked hard to make it popular and fun, all those power hungry arsed poped out from now where, and all of a sudden I'm their best friend.
But it all went away when they found out that I won't let them abuse their power in any way.
Which is why I'm here writing it, because it became so clear to me why the community sucks and why u find power abused everywhere.

Its called objectivity, doing what you do for the community, and not so you can go to sleep at night holding your [CENSORED] feeling all great and mighty over some internet kids.

I'm a dictator, there's no doubt, I try to enforce my strong opinion that everyone should be treated fairly and equaly BAD BAD ME!
Could you believe that someone actualy called me a dictator because I didn't allow him to ban someone on the grounds that "He's on his [CENSORED] list"

Standards and basic terms had gone completly out the windows, ppl don't even know the meaning of "fair play" anymore.

There is no doubt that there are still ppl to talk to, some logical admins and power holding guys in this community, which is why it didn't come to chaos. but they are disapearing one bye one, giving up for this same reason.

It was game, a great game, a simple game that could be played on slow computers with low bandwidth.
Its a 2D game made by 1 guy, which is a wonder by itself.

But today, for alot of kids its just a tool to feel powerfull, a tool to control something virtul because they cant do it in real life.

So yes, I miss the old days, and I would be happy to get stuck with sucky 2v2 games , with 200+ permanent pings, with horrible campers everywhere and no bink to be seen, with only 4-5 good clans to go around, just for 1 more chance to have a clan war, get my ass kicked by good team work and great aim and then joke around with the other team in a mature and enjoyable manner.

Just play DM or TDM or Infilitration. Nobody whines, and occasionally there are really good people in there. Ctf is for pussies (Especially you euros, why can't you just suck it up and play on an american server sometimes? babies..), everyone whines, everyone lames, everyone has something to say. Nobody talks in DM unless a convorsation is started.

how does anyone minupulate a populace, through stong words.
Hitler was a great public speaker
JFK was a great public speaker
Napoleon was a great public speaker
but also take notice that these examples were well educated and mature men, that were minipulating (in a good or bad way) a populace that was less educated and less mature.
this community needs such a man to bring it out of its "depression" it needs a leader

Mancer, you generalize much when you say that, I just see your post as a trolling post which could just aswell be removed. Nothing constructive in it.

So OK, now you have put up your theories, how about some theories how to make changes possibly for the better.
Where is the problems located? Within the structure of the game? of MIRC? in the people controlling the gates in the community? the developer? the beta testers? the website runners? the normal everyday attitude of people?

Wether we like it or not, structures of ranks and power is today in the world just as normal as having babies, and there are ways to reach to the top by doing what you should or doing what you shouldn't. Since there are no extreme guidelines that we must follow.

What is the Soldat community? Is it everyone who writes on this forum or chats over MIRC? Everyone you meet on public servers? Everyone you meet on private servers? Everyone who writes on others forums and leauge places? ETC. It's way too large frame to work within, we need to scale down the meaning of community to something workable and start from there.

Its long term work though, I doubt any fast short term change can do much good. It's a topic to be discussed behind closed doors though.

The good semi old 1.2 days...
I can honestly say that I had the most fun i've had in SOldat was in the week before 1.2.1 came out. There were no racists, you could play for an hours and know almost all of the other players in that server, 'nice' and 'lol' actually meant something and 'BOOM HEADSHOT' was no where to be seen.
I can say that when I first tried Soldat, I was think 'Here's my chance to be a part of something! To get known!' but alas, I soon pulled my head back in, and concentrated on having a laugh and having fun.

A year ago. A whole year! I see players that I've known since I've first started blame lag for everytime they miss a kill. Players who only seem to say 'sif' and 'bs'. People who'll hold a grudge for months! I've seen players who only play on servers to get ranks, literally asking if they can kill you a few times.
Times are changing. Ok, you may not want to admit it, but you're living in the past. Since when has racism not been around? In the 1.2 days everyone laughed it off, and took it in their stride, but I can hardly say that now. People want to argue. People want to be the best.

As said above, times are changing... Even though things mayu be pretty dank now, give things some time and who knows? There might even be a change for the best!

quote:Originally posted by Veronica It's way too large frame to work within, we need to scale down the meaning of community to something workable and start from there.


She's quite right. I've always had such a belief lingering in the back of my head but never really had it pulled towards consciousness before.

I've beat around the bush towards the theory a few times before though. How 'back in the good ol' days' the community was much smaller; near all conversation took place in 1 irc chat room, there was more 'powerful' characters in the community, we all met together regularly on places like DNA's server...

Perhaps the old days were better not because they were simply fond memories, but because the community was smaller and thus a more easily controlled/influenced society, where the small figure of respectable or extroverted characters set a standard for others.


The cure? 'focus' the - or one of - the communities in soldat towards better standards. Maybe make soldat gather a bit more elitest (not always a bad thing), or make more popular passworded servers. U13 private kinda took a back seat when Bricks started hosting publics, which is the easier way of getting a game of Soldat - not always the better way.

Still, all such ideas are worthless until someone in the appropriate position actually puts them into practice. Rarely anyone does.

My post wasnt a troll, I was being serious.

And I'm not generalizing anything, thats the way it is,

I think you are over analyzing this [CENSORED]ing 2d game.

Well Veronica, I'm known to be the last person to be able to express himself clearly (not in English anyways)...
I've been trying to explain that I did find a way, that there is a solution, that I even managed to accomplish some of it in a short time.

When I first started Hall of Fame, I had 1 purpose in mind.
To create a role moddle for future players, so they can enter a website, and see examples of what this community likes and supports and to thank all those ppl who wasted tons of their time to orginize stuff so others kids can just Sign up and have quality games in a good evniorment (lacking curses for example).

I then started the radio, I actualy had 2 purposes for that matter.
I realized that kids here find it harder to curse each other vocaly, they actualy feel uncomfortable saying it rather then just paste all the crap they do.
So I was thinking, if I'll get all the "bad" guys of Soldat to be interviewed, I'll create a human voice on that ugly typing moron and thus make them more friendly.
It actualy worked... for a while.
Both projects were ran by me, I invited everyone, included as much as I could regardless of my personal opinion of his attitude, everyone got a fair treatment.
That ofcourse made it SOOOO hard to deal with things, how do you explain someone that he CANT ban someone because he hates him, when he considers you a dictator for not allowing it?
Soldat Radio and Hall of Fame are both projects to help this community to appreciate one another for the better, if you hear someone's voice and enjoy his songs, if you find common grounds in some thread about some candidate in the hall of fame with someone, maybe you'll think twice before cursing him the next time he kills you in a Soldat game.

But most important, it attracted all those power hungry kids, who ofcourse wanted a piece of it.
Which allowed me to show them an example of how to run something smoothly without abusing your powers and while getting other's respect for your actions and attitude.

Problem started, when I just got tired.
With all do respect, I'm not a kid who comes back from school and is eager to participate in a major community and be a respected member of it.
Sure, it could be nice. but it's not worth that much of my time, and does not concern me that much that I'll waste my saturday/friday nights broadcasting on Soldat radio and managing major news broadcasts and interviews (who are so much harder then you think).

Not to mention all the greedy little creeps, who feel left out because they don't get well known, so they'll try to bring you down by cursing and [CENSORED]ing about.

I'll give you an example of what truely got me sick of doing the Hall of Fame.
I was being blamed again for being a dictator, I'm not good at explaining myself, thus I write massive posts that sometimes miss the point, but there is someone who managed to post exactly what I should have posted myself.
The subject was a committee member, who insisted that committee members will be able to be nominated , meaning, committee members will decide if they (themselfs) are qualified, I denied it, saying it ruins all credibility for the whole project, and I also stated the a committee member who actualy is arrogant enough to think he has the right to nominate and qualify himself for something that we made a committee to think about shouldn't be in the committee in the first place.

I'm sure its confusing and u didn't understand a word I've said, so here's a better explaination:

quote:God, #######, I thought you're certainly smarter then this. You're basically quitting because Ok closed your double-nominee topic, stated his oppinions a lot more often then you did (and did it in a way bright enough to influence the others) and added a rule stating that commitee members may not nominate commitee members.
I won't even bring up the topic that you FORCED him to make a couple of polls to decide on rules YOU should have written and voted over yourselves. You have been granted the right to work as a team and decide how to run this project, yet you choose to let Ok take care of each and every little bit of how this works and to actually MAKE him show you the way, leading you like children (or should I say 'lambs to the sloughter"?)

So he decided to close your topic.
So he decided to be active and make the project work.
So he hasn't thought that you could ever be vane enough to even think about nominating commitee members ( which is the very best way to make this project become hypocritic and unjust).

What, for the love of God, am I missing here? I have sympathised with you and your cause as this discussion started, but now I am seriously thinking that the people who put their trust in you by including your name on their voting lists, might have been mistaken.


So yes, even 1 guy can make this change, I doubt anyone will fight so many kids in their power rage just to make this community a better place.

The problem in its main is that this community is self maintained, and there is no higher authoroty to control it and find good substetutes when someone leaves an open space.

The soldat creator does not take part in shaping the community (can you blame him??), most admins of today just want to keep their status and really dont care about the general situation.

But the biggest problem, the major problem that made it so easy for the power hungry to gain power is all those kids who say : "He didn't do anything to me, so I'm fine with him".

In short it means that most kids will sit aside or even support the admin/op while he kicks and bans and abuses his power , because it doesnt effect them, which is a huge misconception.
Because you see those same prick later on whining about how this community today.
And all I can think off is that day a year ago that I asked them to help in making things better and I got an answer of : "He didn't do anything to ME, so I don't care"

I tried, and this isn't an issue of times who are changing, we're talking about things that actualy hurt and damage the quality of the community and the game itself. you have ppl here claiming that they started on 1.2 and even they talk about this as a currpot age, I don't remember doing the same about 1.1.3 or 1.1.2 or any of the future versions, not even 1.2 who completly changed the soldat scene.
its an issue of a niglected community, like anything else when you desert something, the parasites will take over it and curropt it.

Get over it, I'm not holding up to a past, I'm aiming for a better future.

the upper echelons of the soldat community gone sour i take it? perhaps that's the problem, that we have such things as "gathers", that these "kids" as you call them can have this power at their finger tips. call me ignorant for attacking something i know nothing about but you must realize that having this segregation of the soldat community will only lead to frustration. have you considered going back to the public community? host your own server if that is an option and use the mute command liberally.

Oh, c'mon you guys! In the end, soldat is only what you make of it..
Your the one who decide how far you wanna go with it. And so what if somethings not really working out? It's still fun to play, right? Sure there are campers and newbies and all, but that is part of the game, and it always will be.
The soldat community? it is simply those who play today, and still have something to say tomorrow. Some ppl might not be too smart, nor very constructive though sitting in high seats, but it's not really a problem, is it!?
MM still manages to send out various versions, though containing only bugfixes some of them, but what is the idea of releasing an update, if it's a completely other game? This is where mods come in..
I think soldat is fine the way it is. Don't get me wrong, i think problems should be brought up for a disgussion, but let's face it: Soldat is a free 2D shooting game, and it is not whether the forum works, or wether the mIRC client is worth visiting, that makes this game fun and attractive.. it is.. what you, yourself, put in it!
I'm very into soldat, and i'm all for disgussion and improvement, but let's not be hasty about it. That's what i say..
echo out

I suppose the creation of gather servers and other private servers, the creation of private leagues and other websites regarding the game might lead to a distance between the everyday casual players and the more involved fanbase. But then again what if the forums, the websites and MIRC didn't exist like they do today. What if there only was the game and the soldat.pl site. Nothing else. What we make of it is what we build around it, and we shouldn't stop to build/maintain the garden, because its what makes the normal looking house beautiful.

If i had the power to, I would change the easiness of which it is to join these forums...
People who register and join should have to endure a seven day waiting time, with out being able to post, but once the week is up, they can begin to post like normal members.

Also I would like to add that it's pointless to argue as it won't change anything at all. But if you like a pointless discussion, give it a nice go :)

Outcast, even the largest changes start somewhere, even if its just in a (as you call it) pointless argue.

Outcast, even though it might never be implemented, it's been proven effective. Look at Myspace.com for an example.
What it does is show how committed people are by enduring the waiting time, while others who are just in for a quick spam-ban, give up and try to cause chaos and 'burn' in other forums.

First of all, for a change no one is argueing here.
Maybe its good admining, maybe its just our luck, but notice the lack of cursing words, the lack of useless spam (counting out outcast last one).
Why is that? because you the kids that I talk off don't come here.
One of them (that ironicly enough was suggested as a beta tester) is not even registered to this forum.
Which with no doubt shows his "true" care about Soldat...

I doubt any of us will make a change, I doubt change will be made by someone at all.
It was nice to have a proper discussion though, without someone yelling "you stupid haahhaah" in the middle.
(Now lets wait for the wise guy...)

Im sorry, once again i didnt completely read the whole topic, but Ok, as you saud: "Today we have a community that is controled by kids who can and will pay for stuff just to satisfy their hunger for power" Suomipoika? "kids who will invest hours in programing just to get recgnition from other and get some power of their own." Dark Noddy?
"Kids who will do anything to start their own thing because they're so immature they won't enjoy something you make, they prefer to make somethign similiar and try to take "revenge" on those who ignored them before." Sometiinhg called: Israeli "Jew" Gather? By someone who looks like you, and acts like you?

Why do you talk alot like "Today in gather there were total noobs who coudnt win me and whined and left" In gather once there was noob and i had to deal with 2 enemies" "In gather there is jus whiny noobs", now lets do a Suomipoika + Noddy + LiGHTNiNG(?) and think what we will get.. Hmm a GATHER, RIGHT A GATHER! Hooray for you Ok.

Blame gather, blame that you are so oldschool player with NO respect from some ppl. (like me)

How does this thread get even interesting, like ppl care whan an "oldie veteran" says here? or this forum when tehre is "I think this about this [CENSORED] Soldat which bugs like hell die MM" topics?

Well, maybe i was too offensive, i kinda feel like you, community sucks, thats for sure, and i dont feel it good when i think that I enjoy more playing in publics than cws or gathers.

See? see?!?!

sigh...

P.S: I never say stuff like that "Today in gather there were total noobs who coudnt win me and whined and left"

"In gather there is jus whiny noobs"

If any, I'm being called a whiny n00b for the reasons I stated above.
And looky here, I even have an example 5 minutes old:
(19:27:42) (+LoveSoldier) this is stupid
(19:27:44) (+LoveSoldier) so many israelis
(19:27:52) (+LoveSoldier) we could just play on an israeli server
(19:27:52) (@#admin#) Whine for it.
(19:27:57) (m0rPh`) so many noobs
(19:28:01) (m0rPh`) and lamers
(19:28:03) (@#admin#) m0rPh`
(19:28:12) (+Apoc|Stoned) whine
(19:28:12) (@#admin#) Choose your words carefully.


Notice the "whine" comments combined with a threat using his mighty powers on some guy who dared challange his mighty soldat skills.

yeah, thats true, but not all of that should be taken so seriously. :)

Ppl really take this game a bit too seriously IMO, which ruins community. :/

Like clanwars, i have okayed alot of them, since 1.3 more and more clans focus on playng vs. total noobs to gain more wins to their stats, if they lose u get whined back alot.

But it is good that not all of the clans are like that. :)

I wonder how the game would be like without a fanbase, just game hopping players who plays. Joy...

If you think it will make the game better, you're wrong.
Just enter a Public, if you're good, you'll get cursed by some, although there are the occasional compliments and even requests for some tips, but mostly [CENSORED]twats tend to bash you when you ruin their fun by owning them.

Also, without the fanbase and the community in general, you wouldn't have clans, no leauges, no gathers, no nothing, so the highest level would be just you playing in publics.

This however can never be the status quo, since our human basics tells us that things are better when in groups, ppl with the same interests will always come together to share it and enjoy it together.
In this case its about team work, friendships, age factor, language, pings etc....

Without the "fanbase" soldat will be boring after 3-4 months of playing it.

What was, was. There will never be another "good old times".
I think it's best to give "Time, some Time". Eventually everyone will
stop being a jerk, if you turn away to argue with him, as he won't find it "fun" anymore.

If he has an OP or admins somewhere, and you ignore him, he'll find excuses to abuse it to get your attention.
(this is exactly what is happening btw....)
Its like a little kid who wants his parents attention but they dont give it, so he'll cry and moan and do anything to get on their nerves.
In this case, the kids can kick, ban or anything else that actualy effects you in a way its impossible to ignore.