Let's take a closer look at these.
USP has a large chance of killing someone when that someone is using a primary weapon.
The knife... What's that? You just dodged someone's whole clip and then they take out a knife when you have full health and kill you?
Hmm... These don't sound like secondaries.
ALL of them need to be nerfed, except maybe the saw.
Nerf them to a degree where they're actually SECONDARIES- LAST RESORT WEAPONS.
Make the USP deplete 4/5 of health in a full clip.
Make Knife deplete 4/5 health when hit. Make it an instant kill when stabbed.
Give the LAW even more delay time, just to even it out with the other secondaries.
Saw... I'm not sure. I think it's alright the way it is.

I can assure you that one priority concerning the balancing are the secondaries, mostly the knife. There will also be a very noticable change to this in the upcomming version. I think we got a very good balance there.

MisterX, can we get ideas about what the change will be? I just want to know and see the change before it is released with the new version, Im sure many others would like to see it aswell :S.

quote:Originally posted by PoopMisterX, can we get ideas about what the change will be? I just want to know and see the change before it is released with the new version, Im sure many others would like to see it aswell :S.

Watch out poor people, there'll be a new charge on some goods.. *cough* ;)

I guess in that case it's a very strong likelihood that we'll be seeing knives with grenade-style throw... That one's a subject that sparked quite a bit of debate, so it'll be interesting to see how it actually performs; it's an idea I believe is certainly worth trying, afterall.

Second, the USSOCOM does pack quite a bit of power, especially compared it's big brothers, the DEs. I wouldn't mind seeing a slight decrease in damage, although the only time the gun saw widespread use was back when it was the only secondary.

LAW probably shouldn't be touched until something can be done about the wide range of actual firing times that can result due to lag/ping/whatever. The main problem (that I imagine is a priority fix for the upcoming version) is the whole invisible rocket thing.



...No matter what happens, though, at least we can all agree that the chainsaw's just right :)

quote:Originally posted by YoMammasMammaLAW probably shouldn't be touched until something can be done about the wide range of actual firing times that can result due to lag/ping/whatever. The main problem (that I imagine is a priority fix for the upcoming version) is the whole invisible rocket thing.
I can reassure you: The invisible rockets were one of the first bugs that was fixed in 1.3.1 :)
I also think the LAW should be kept untouched. If the Socom is alright (which I'm not sure about. Perhaps its damage really has to be decreased) and the knife balanced, yet still great fun to use (and it is like that at the moment, at least in my opinion :)), I think they will just be on the same level as LAW, so there needn't be a change for it.
I'm just not sure about what could be done to make chainsaw be more useful. It's actually not bad, but even in 1.3.1, I doubt that it will be able to compete with the knife. But I think there hasn't be an idea which is a) possible to be made and b) wouldn't overpower it, until now. So I suppose it will stay the weapon that's mostly used for fun-matches and can rarely be used effectivly in serious matches. :/
So any ideas about the chainsaw are welcome!

use the SAW and you'll find out it is one of the most powerful weapons in the game. i don't agree with all this nerfing. you nerf one weapon and you have to nerf all other weapons bring back the weapon balance. couldn't we still increase the poentcy of the weapons and still have great weapon balance? the strength of the weapons is already to the point where the game is not playible above 14 players. it seems like any server above 12 players all the players end up switching to one shot kill weapons. it's to the point where you have to turn around and chase someone down in order to kill them. i don't support this. no, do not nerf anymore weapons. stop it. make the weapons stronger and make them balanced.

Knife would be pointless if it wasn't a 1 hit kill weapon. When you throw the knife, you lose it. Before you can pick it up, you're dead.

Well when you consider how often the knife is used, it's not that hard to pick up the knife of some other guy. Also, it doesn't take that long to pick up your own knife. If you're running around with no weapons like an idiot, you deserve to get shot.

Mister X, if your 2nd post was implying what I think it was implying...you've made me very sad.

The knife wouldn't be pointless if it wasn't a one hit kill. It would be a secondary.
And yes, socom's damage really needs to be lowered. It ties with the deagles in a firefight (Unless you get a headshot with the deagles).

I beleive the knife shouldnt kill instantly. It should take a major chunk of their health as zambino said. It would certainly tone down the kills, and it would be up to the knifer to pull out his primary and finish the job. This however, would kill off knife servers. :(

Socom, yes. Get riiiid of power.

I still think Saw needs more damage to ensure it kills instantly no matter what. :F

We wouldnt have this problem if primary weapons did more damage.

What Rooster said.

Deagles can barely compete with any weapon in 1.3... they were an awesome weapon in 1.2.1, and required skill to be good. It's not like you saw an overwhelming number of deagle users in matches... these days, you'd be lucky to see one at all.

And there is NO WAY the SOCOM's power should be lowered any further. I think it's perfectly balanced, currently. It certainly isn't very powerful. If anyone with any skill with the knife or LAW faced up against the SOCOM, they'd have a good chance of winning.

So yeah: deagles in 1.3.1: 2 shot kills for torso and head, and 3 for the legs. They're already slower than they were in the last version... or you could make it 3 shots anywhere and speed them back up.

But I agree, the knife is ridiculously unbalanced, I hate that thing so much. Headshots should be a kill, but otherwise it should leave someone just alive - that would be much better.

@person: you can kill a full-health soldat with half a SOCOM clip. That's quite powerful for the few some who can adapt to its trajectory.

Knife cannot be edited regarding damage (people will always complain about that), so just lessen the throwing distance.

The knife problem is solved in a different way.

The law is fine as it is, both due to the startup and the monster reload time, the chainsaw is just fine, because you can only use it when you get really close to someone, and that takes a rather great deal of skill.

But the colt1911 (socom) really does a lot of damage for something that is supposed to be a secondary weapon, I suggest a 10-20% decrease in the damage it does. And the knife is used a lot too, often as a primary instead of an emergency weapon, the grenade like "charge up" that has been suggested elsewhere would probably fix all balance issues with it.

hmm.. the knife is a bit powerfull, but i like keron's idea with lower the throwing distance. I use the knife myself, i used to use law, but it slowed me down so much. Most people that sue the law are defensive, me being an offensive kinda of guy. The secondaries depend really on what you like to do. But enough of the postitions, the socom is over powerd, and i like the chainsaw the way it is. But, i also think that the knife should be portrayed more now, as a stabbing knife, ide increse the stab distance, and decrease the throwing distance, which would make it even IMO.

arg, do not make the SAW instant kill. i'm huge SAW fan and i use it as my exclusive primary, so i'm PRO-SAW, not a hater. however, i can tell you right now that id you were to increase the power on the SAW so that it is instant kill, then that will be a huge mistake. i already feel guilty for some of the things i do with that SAW. the weapon would be heavily overpowered if it were made instant kill.

something's up with the net code. i can use the SAW on my OWN server or againsts bots in lan games all day and the weapons performs great. as soon as i join a internet game on soem other server that is other than my own, i get all kinds of unregisted hits with the saw. i'll run people right through it and not get kills. other times i run them through the saw and they only receive partial damage, as if some of the hits aren't registering.

knife servers wouldnt be gone: theyd just mod the knife to do more damage.

I think the knife could be just as good with damage reduction. If it does 75% damage, then the only time it doesn't kill anyone in one hit is if you throw it at someone other than your main target. If you hit your target with an auto then the knife should easily finish him off.


And the saw needs a huge boost to damage, firing rate, and ammo. If the fire rate is increased, you dont get the annoying enemy-runs-in-between-your-saw-damage-times. And more ammo would be nice. I hate having to reload constantly, and having enemys just run right thru me before im done. Either that or decrease reloading time.

That's just the thing - you can kill someone if you're (key word: ) awesome with it!

Anyone that has some resemblence of skill with any primary can easily kill (using that weapon) someone equipped with a SOCOM.

So what are you guys gonna do, huh? All this talk of making the weapons harder to use and full on weaker... I reckon fists will be the next big thing in 1.3.1.


And the knife should be an awesome weapon to finish someone off after autoing someone's health down, not the second chance for the one-hit killers.

True, veritas. The chainsaw is fine when you come up close. But it has an unrealistic fireinterval. The time between the chops are rediculusly long. Too often it happens that someone runs right through en enemy with a chainsaw without substaining any damage at all. Imagine yourself running towards a crazy man with a chainsaw. The saw's chain spins so slow that you could slap the chain with your hand between the blades and have time to pull it out.

It can even be compared to the knife when you try to stab with it. It's sorta impossible unless he stands still and you slowly approach him. The knife's fireinterval is 6, the chainsaw's is 4. So how realistic is it only takes 33% shorter time for a spinning chain's blades to hit twice than a person could stab with a knife? And note that the knife is 1-hit-kill.

I agree with whoever started this topic.

Secondaries mught as well be primaries right now.

I really think the LAW should get a boost somewhere, I mean right now it's pretty much useless, unless you're on CTF_Voland or something, but even there, barrets are better. I personally think that they should start with the law 1/3-1/5 loaded, and have it load, and half it's charge up time decreased or completely wiped out.

quote:Originally posted by Swarmerknife servers wouldnt be gone: theyd just mod the knife to do more damage.

I think the knife could be just as good with damage reduction. If it does 75% damage, then the only time it doesn't kill anyone in one hit is if you throw it at someone other than your main target. If you hit your target with an auto then the knife should easily finish him off.


And the saw needs a huge boost to damage, firing rate, and ammo. If the fire rate is increased, you dont get the annoying enemy-runs-in-between-your-saw-damage-times. And more ammo would be nice. I hate having to reload constantly, and having enemys just run right thru me before im done. Either that or decrease reloading time.



Well, you've certainly outspoken my ideas. I agree ^^ Although, I think the knife should be left at any percentage where it only kills from direct head shots, and injures based on torso/foot shots. Although, Keron mentioned damage didnt matter. >> I dont like lowering throwing distance, makes the most hardest to make knife kills impossible, or atleast the ones that 80% of the time dont even kill.

the knife should stay one shot kill. the point here is not that the secondaries are, or should be, inferior to the primaries, but that they are different. the kinfe, SAW and LAW alow the auto user to have a one shot kill weapon to use for quick kills, conversly the socom allows the M79er and barretard to have a rapid firing weapon. it adds balance and variety to the game. it's a big part of soldat and it is one thing that should not be changed. the LAW does need to have 0 start up time and if the net code is fixed the SAW will be a powerful as it was i 1.2.1.

They are between primaries and secondaries.

They've been ok this long. It wasn't until auto's and such were abinked. that people started complaining about it.

The only weapons I have been killed with more than the knife are the M79 and Barret, according some log parsing program I have.

It's the cheapest weapon in the game, other than the M79 - imo.


And I really don't mind the fact that someone can easily kill a n00b with a SOCOM. The fact is, if you use it in a clanwar you'd have to be an idiot. As good as a primary? Not by a long shot. Useful? Yes.

But why are they considered 'Secondary' then? Why in the manual does it tell you you should pick up an abandoned primary over your secondary.

And yet the secondaries are mostly one hit kills. They are 'Alternate' weapons, and allow a player to run with two weapons. But I would atleast like to see them as secondaries to see what would be best.

I just don't see the point of dodging someone's bullets, you're still at or near full health, and they pull out their knife and stick it in you.
It's like a kick to the face.