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weapon balance
Soldat Forums - Soldat Talk - 1.3.1 related complaints and/or whining -NO BUGS-
zyxstand
December 11, 2005, 4:16 pm
i'd say, a good applicable definition for 'good weapon balance' is when people in a game use a wide variety of different guns. before 1.3.1, i've seen people use all kinds of weapons - as well as secondaries! so WHY change the barret and the knife? perhaps work on the chainsaw to make it more popular but everything else was just FINE. maybe even the minigun but that gun's just for fun. stop trying to please the noobs by removing a gun with which TEHY (noobs) cannot understand how to beat.

DeLarge
December 11, 2005, 7:41 pm
I see people fight with chainsaws.

n00bface
December 11, 2005, 7:44 pm
how about YOU use a variety of weapons instead of whining about the two weapons you [CENSORED]d the most being slightly gimped (Hey, they're still easy to use, how about you learn how to [CENSORED]ing deal with it)

solohan50
December 11, 2005, 8:32 pm
^^^ Exactly! He's talking about how people use a variety of weapons, yet he doesn't (or can't, not sure which). Also, I've seen more people using different weapons now in 1.3.1 than I ever did in 1.3 (anyone who played in u13 or the Fractured servers and had 7 people using m79 knows what I'm talking about).

The Geologist
December 11, 2005, 8:39 pm
quote:Originally posted by n00bfacehow about YOU use a variety of weapons instead of whining about the two weapons you [CENSORED]d the most being slightly gimped (Hey, they're still easy to use, how about you learn how to [CENSORED]ing deal with it)

zyxstand
December 12, 2005, 12:45 am
i wasn't talking about any specific person using a variety of weapons. for all i care we can have people devoting themselves to one gun - player 1 always uses deagles, player 2 always uses spas, etc. and i always use barret - overall, the weapons were balanced! (don't argue whether it's correct that every person uses only one gun but the point lies in that overall they were balanced)

Marbire
December 12, 2005, 2:20 am
They weren't balanced. Any noob with zero skill could pick up barret, point and click, and be good. With delay, we are screening those noobs. Apparently you are one of them.

Deleted User
December 12, 2005, 3:54 am
i realised that more people use m79 because barret require more skill now and it is just as or even more annoying

Ken the Great
December 12, 2005, 12:54 pm
well basicly the barret is a weapon that's easy to use, but now they made it harder to use, so people have started using weapons like m79 and autos more. As secondary I've seen LAW becoming more famous. Anyhow, I have to point out that I believe in time and that time will make you good in these weapons by practising with them. Although my idea would of been to make other weapons better than ruining some of the best weapons... invent a tank to soldat and make it blow up the snipers camping place :D (yes I've seen Saving Private Ryan some days ago ;-) )
You could of edited the barret in some other way instead of giving it a startup time.. as I'm a big fan of realistic games I can't find any startup time in real snipers.. as far as I know. One thing would of make the barret hard to aim, like you have to keep the crosshair still in a specific amount of time for better accuracy, also as when reloading your crosshair should go to the place the gun points when reloading and not keeping it where it was.. that's my idea, flame me if you want, and if you don't accept me for having my own opinion.

toniking
December 12, 2005, 4:21 pm
quote:Originally posted by Ken the Greatwell basicly the barret is a weapon that's easy to use, but now they made it harder to use, so people have started using weapons like m79 and autos more. As secondary I've seen LAW becoming more famous. Anyhow, I have to point out that I believe in time and that time will make you good in these weapons by practising with them. Although my idea would of been to make other weapons better than ruining some of the best weapons... invent a tank to soldat and make it blow up the snipers camping place :D (yes I've seen Saving Private Ryan some days ago ;-) )
You could of edited the barret in some other way instead of giving it a startup time.. as I'm a big fan of realistic games I can't find any startup time in real snipers.. as far as I know. One thing would of make the barret hard to aim, like you have to keep the crosshair still in a specific amount of time for better accuracy, also as when reloading your crosshair should go to the place the gun points when reloading and not keeping it where it was.. that's my idea, flame me if you want, and if you don't accept me for having my own opinion.

i disagree with you somethings, ,Barret(I talking 1.3.1 before) if you want to use it well, the skill is very important,the skill is harder than any autogun or other gun.
if you think that no need any skill can do a pro barret player
i just can said, you haven't meet a really pro barret player.
Why just have people said that barret noob?
i want to say, what weapon also can kill people when you keep on use it, if the weapon can't kill people,why need this weapon?
why just have people said barret noob?
I don't think M79 have what cheaper than barret.
i have see a topic said ,1on1 M79 is very cheap, but i want to say, you just haven't see i really good M79 player only!
M79 in 1on1 also very very powerful, just you don't know how to use it!
Then why just said barret noob?
if you said barret noob,then why dont say M79 noob?
Oh,because the bullet range is so special! it not like barret the bullet is direct shot!
but i want to say, because M79 have this bullet range, it can be do a special kill other gun cannot do it!
and this gun reload is shorter than barret
why just have people said what barret noobs ,but no one say M79 noob!
this is very unfair!!!!!!!!
so, the barret have startuptimes(Delay) is really unnecessary!!!
if you just keep barret have startuptimes(Delay)
THen, M79 also need have startuptimes(Delay) TOO!!!!!!!!!!!

ThaD
December 12, 2005, 6:02 pm
there's nothing like a perfect balance, what is good for one is crap for another

Algernon
December 12, 2005, 6:03 pm
why does no one use the chainsaw? it's one of the most powerful weapons in the game and it's pretty easy to use. it seems like 90% of the players that go up against it have no counter for it and will literaly run right into it. for those who do it's still fairly easy to catch them off gaurd with by flying at them as fast as you can, giving little time time to react to you. it seems that about the only weapons that could react quick enough to stop a saw were the m79, barret, MP5, kinfe (if you were skilled) and spaz. with 1.3.1's barret delay and the 30% more self damage m79 the chainsaw is even more powerful, however it acts up at the first sign of lag (no hit kills) and the bugy net code also can produce similar results.

go run around with the thing as a primary for a while, master it, and then tell me that it is underpowered. :p

Metatag
December 12, 2005, 7:25 pm
I think that the start-up time on the Barrett shouldn't be considered as a (cyber)physical delay. Think of it as your soldat steadying himself in preparation for the shot so that he's as accurate as possible.

Deleted User
December 12, 2005, 8:35 pm
Holy crap... You may have an almost valid point with the knife which is now way worse. Not just harder, worse. The barret however is still incredibly easy, just follow them with your crosshair for a split second and its the same as before.

zyxstand
December 12, 2005, 11:40 pm
i'd have to say that compared to all other weapons, the barret takes the most skills - you may argue with the m79 but either way it takes careful aim and good judgment. I'd say, the fact that the barret already lost accuracy while walking is a big enough issue there though i fire my bullets mostly in a steady manner (stop and fire or fire in slowest-moving part of a jump). now, anybody wanna tell me that the hk takes more skills than a precision weapon, all i can say is that your wrong!

Ken the Great
December 13, 2005, 5:33 pm
@ toniking

If I said barret noob, forgive me. I accept barret and m79 as all other weapons, what I ment is that they are a bit too easy to use (I've got voted for using aimbot when I have just have had good aim..).. I don't know why you think that I call my favourite weapons noob weapons, since my meaning was that they are good and not nooby, what I wanted to say is that they was a bit easy to use, but if u can't use it properly it's easy to take out. Barret of course needs skills, but as a one hit kill weapon new players use it and aren't that good at it.
might also depend on my post rating that you think I'm a noob or whatever you try to point out in your text.

Yukwunhang
December 13, 2005, 6:26 pm
The fact is Barret is easy to use. MOST kills are made by Barret in 1.3 and before and thats mean it was overused. People(Newbies) always pick a gun that is most easy to use and could kill effectively, you can't argue that. Overused = Overpowered = easy.

Deleted User
December 13, 2005, 8:32 pm
I wrote this post on a different forum. I never post here because the vast majority of the people only play Normal mode, which is something I stopped playing when 1.3 was released and Soldat became M79/Barret wars.

Begin quote:
"The knife is stupid now. It got nerfed because of the 99% non-RS community that makes up Soldat complained about it constantly. They're used to being able to live so long that having a secondary weapon that can kill so fast got on their nerves.

MM should release two soldat versions. Soldat: Normal and Soldat: Realistic. Both would be downloaded in the same .exe, but he could balance the weapons to how they SHOULD cater to both styles.

Maybe that's a stupid idea.. I don't know. But I hate how the Realistic community has like no say in anything. We are a minority. If they all whine about something, then it will be changed, not without some thought in regards to Realistic, ofc.. But not as it should be. I like 1.3.1. I think the delay to the Barret was the right way to go, maybe it's a tad bit too long.. Delay added to the knife, fine. But it should fly faster to reach the target sooner. Does that contradict the change? No. Because the delay is what makes it more difficult to use. Knife is supposed to be a split second, save your ass secondary weapon. Increased speed would correct it's current problem."

End quote.

1.3.1 is the most balanced version thus far, in my opinion. Especially now that off screen spray has weaker damage. That mostly concerns Realistic mode though. For reasons above, you see what I believe to be an issue with the knife. It's no longer a last second 'save', which is fine. It takes like 1.5 seconds to throw, but then it flies like 1.5 miles per hour and goes like 1.5 feet. For use in Normal mode, where you have a chance of surviving longer it seems more balanced. In Realistic Survival, you might as well get on your knees and place your hands behind your head, because you're about to get owned.

azn_chipmunk
December 13, 2005, 11:47 pm
my clan basically uses ONLY saws and nades....

toniking
December 14, 2005, 11:19 am
quote:Originally posted by yukwunhangThe fact is Barret is easy to use. MOST kills are made by Barret in 1.3 and before and thats mean it was overused. People(Newbies) always pick a gun that is most easy to use and could kill effectively, you can't argue that. Overused = Overpowered = easy.

ALL gun is easy to use,but no easy to use it very well
no one can just say some gun noob, if yes, all gun are noobs
then,don't use gun no noob only

that's all

Hanayo
December 14, 2005, 4:15 pm
I agree with you, toniking.

Most weapons are easy to use but hard to master.
But theres still a difference between barret and autos/semi-autos - the barret (version 1.3) has the tactical advantage over all other weapons: that you need way less time to kill. There are no longer fire fights like you have with ak or steyr, which is a huge advantage especially for ctf.

The result is that if you are skilled and _lucky_ its very easy to cap.
You see the enemy - shoot - kaboom - dead - you reach the base and he spawns - kaboom - dead - cap - win. Time is a critical factor for ctf - and the faster you kill the more time you have to get to the flag (plus you dont get injured so much, which also helps alot).

And thats what i hate about the barret. Its not just easier as most other weapons but also have a tactical advantage if used the right way.

Think about it ;)

zyxstand
December 14, 2005, 9:39 pm
quote:Originally posted by yukwunhangThe fact is Barret is easy to use. MOST kills are made by Barret in 1.3 and before and thats mean it was overused. People(Newbies) always pick a gun that is most easy to use and could kill effectively, you can't argue that. Overused = Overpowered = easy.


those statistics you just gave there (most kills by barrets in 1.3) is misleading. here's what the more accurate fact says:
The different types of weapons (excluding secondaries) are: machine guns, one hit bullets, semi-auto (rug and de and spas), and explosives.
if you would've used these statistics which more accurately describe the type of people (many say that steyr and ak are quite similar as well as steyr and hk and ak and mini) - in this case, i highly doubt that more kills are due to barret as opposed to due machine guns!

Deleted User
December 15, 2005, 6:46 am
I was barreter with knife and i am barreter with knife today too no matter how it will change i love those weapons even is it needs more skills,now i will try to do my best to handle those two awsome weapons,and m79 how people said here is not sooooo good any way,i can evade from a nade of m79 that flying to me,you just need to run to the nade not escape from it this way the nade misses you.

headstone
December 15, 2005, 4:32 pm
Good job Max for not being a whining ass, and learning to adapt to changes.

Sir Galahad
December 15, 2005, 7:11 pm
I used barret a lot too but on the i find intended way. The btchy sniper way. I think the barret was initially introduced as a sniper, but people, mostly reffered to as noobs, use them in standard combat were the sniper has a sort of unfair balance.
That's why I agreed too that there shouldve been done something but i just dont find this timedelay appropriate, because of it being a firstperson shooter were even a second could mean a kill or not. It makes the use of the sniper even a bit unpleasant actually.
In most games they have found the perfect way to solve this. They don't give a crosshair when not in zoom, but a better one when u do zoom in. An other possible solution may be that u, like the law , should duck or crouch.
Now that i don't use barret so often i start using some other guns more and effectively so that could be an advance of 131.

SabugoStorm
December 18, 2005, 2:24 am

Heck, barrets are nice this way, they are still easy too use, the only difference, as pointed, is that now it requires only a bit of skill to use, like every other weapon.

And about m79, geez, they shoot so slowly and with such an awkward arc, it's so easy to dodge. They are only really a problema at point-blank, but hell, spaz is also. Firing it takes more of crativity in a attempt to pinpoint what would the enemy do, it's more of a guess.

About knives, they got mostly useless. They are pretty much the same as a grenade now, but without bounce and explosion, and with the need of changing weapons. By the way, I don't see why in the hell some people insist in wanting realism to the weapons, remember what makes soldat fun in the first place.