Theres alot of people around here who only caught onto 'The Soldat Show' when 1.2.1 was doing it's thang.
It's always wise to know your history, especially in this game, which has seen many ups, downs, and other directions.


Heres a low-down from as far back as I can recall....





1.1.3 to 1.1.5 saw little changes in balance. Believe it or not, the weapons - and especially the autos - were significantly more weaker than they are today. The major changes that took place during this time though were the introduction of secondaries.

My memory on secondaries is a little hazy, but I do remember contraversy over the chainsaw of all things. There wasn't that discreet 3-seconds of invincibility upon respawn like we have now, and chainsaw was instant-kill on touch with unlimited ammo, so you can imagine the results!



Otherwise, there was no such thing as bink, boosting or delays ('cept for minigun, and boosting was once present in earlier versions), so it's not hard to understand with all the weapons being even weaker than they are now, that the 1 shot weapons held a significant dominance on the game. Fortunately for most players who had been playing longer than I had, they had come accustomed to using these weapons and favoured them.

Unfortunately for them, more and more new players were arriving, and they were not too content with a 1-weapon game.







1.2 beta testing held a significant amount of contraversy which held ripples of changes into the future. Michal had introduced a severely nerfed barret; he had increased the movementacc value to such a high degree that it wasn't possible to fire the gun while moving. Not even while floating in mid-air. It had become strictly a camper weapon.
It was a very interesting time of recognition for Soldat. The barret-discussion in the beta forum went on for 26 pages, Michal even mentioning in a famous quote that he didn't approve of 'combat snipers', but eventually he caved in to demand and returned the Barret to it's original settings, and tried to consult other means to balance weapons...


Note also that balance was left entirely up to Michal at this time. The weapons editor was but a far off dream.


..so, without being able to nerf barret, and without ideas such as bink and such, he increased the weapon power of all the other weapons significantly. Bizarrely, this alone wasn't really enough to contend with the die-hard barret fanbase and it's smaller brother the m79, which still dominated the game despite the game's growing population of new players either joining in the fun, or wishing for something better than a 1-gun game.






1.2.1 Saw the sudden arrival of Michal's latest invention: bink. The Barret-friendly people in the beta test tried to raise a ruckus, but several cries of 'no, not again' silenced an arguement that both sides had grown tiresome of long ago.

The basic form of the weapons editor also put the task of weapon balance into the beta testers hands! Only damage could be modified, but Michal happily said "now you know what it's like for me :)" after witnessing the long periods of testing and heated discussion. Most of the testing was done in the death-match environment though, and was consequently very balanced in a 1v1 situation.


Many of today's new players found themselves in appreciation of 1.2.1, the 1 shot weapons no longer a problem, but the autos proving an incredible dominance in team-warfare - an unforseen balance issue. Desert Eagles too, when mastered of it's accuracy, lended itself to numerous unstoppable players. I personally enjoyed the ruger, as it was really [CENSORED]ing difficult to avoid being shot long enough to shoot back without being binked.


However, true balance doesn't favour weapons. It was soon recognised that an auto, or even worse a pair of autos that could kill as fast as a barret once could in earlier versions was merely repeating history onto another class of weapon, leaving other weapons in the shadows.







1.3 saw a new invention with new weapons editing abilities: Self Bink.

With the recognition of the autos holding too strong a dominance, it was made for autos to not have as such a reliable aim as they once did - evidently leading to a significant difference. Beta testing for 1.3 was more rigorous than ever before, testing taking place in controlled CTF games, classes of weapon going up against other classes.

The balance was seen as perfect, especially after 6-8 weeks of non-stop work towards it. But as usual, a few nuances pop up after release when players themselves look for the quickest easiest edge to defeating an enemy. Knives in particular, as well as the mp5, m79 and barret remaining questionable to some. Some say autos were too powerful still, others claimed the ruger was (understandably, from a ruger user) overpowering, etc...







1.3.1 was introduced to the beta team very shortly after 1.3. In fact, just a month after or sooner I believe. A tired and demoralised beta team retreated into their normal lives having done their best, leaving 1.3.1 delayed indefinitely. Public weapons balance was introduced to buy time before gathering a new beta-team, as well as attempt to illustrate and gather ideas towards whatever issues remained in the balance.






...and here we are today. Balance issues will forever remain questionable, some people having being 'born' into Soldat at certain times finding themselves favourable to one variation than another. But as we go further on in Soldat and taking a look back, we can find the balance becoming a mixture of past issues blended with new ideas and twists.


Note the evident anti-barret bias in my post here too. We all see balance in various ways, seeing problems perhaps where others do not or maybe where there is none. Welcome to Soldat.


Otherwise, if I got something wrong or like to make an addition, or if you'd like to include something to what happened 'before' 1.1.3, go nuts guv. Just figured it might be interesting to those who aren't scared of long posts ;)

please help the ADHD among you friend...wha?

*sigh*

Ok then.


BARRET WAS LIKE PWNZOR, THEN I WHINED A BIT BUT MICHAL COULDN'T NERF IT 'COS THEY WHINED TOO.

THEN!

MICHAL SAID "BLIMEY" AND MADE ALL THE OTHER WEAPONS LIKE UBER!!! THAT WAS 1.2 AND 1.2.1!


THEN ROFL, AUTOS WERE TOO MUCH AND DE'S WERE LIKE 'WTF', SO AUTOS GOT NERFED AND NOW WE'RE HAPPY. CEPT THE SPRAYERS AND BARRETARDS HAHAHA.



...that help?

LMAOATATRSOLSAFAS^q231341


Thank you Chakra, you gave me an insight into what has been happening here before I discovered this game.

i've only been around since the release of 1.2, but i'm one of the people that never seemed to notice the use of only one or two weapons. i guess i've only been on servers that have more diversity among weapon usage.

and maka, i know you have ADHD, but please try to pay attention. just try.

Goodjob Chakra.
i think this topic should be made sticky and also be included in the official manual
cuz we've heard ENOUGH whines from our lovely barret-users and knife-users. :P
p.s.: why can't they just make WM for their beloved version of soldat?

stickie? this is some pretty useful info IMO.

quote:Originally posted by Chakra`It was a very interesting time of recognition for Soldat. The barret-discussion in the beta forum went on for 26 pages, Michal even mentioning in a famous quote that he didn't approve of 'combat snipers', but eventually he caved in to demand and returned the Barret to it's original settings, and tried to consult other means to balance weapons...

A famous quote indeed that I've carried in my profiles 'Favourite Quotes' ever since:

quote:"I don't understand why you want to use the Barret in mid-air, it's a sniper weapon! Use an auto weapon if you want to make duels in the air"
"I would rather get killed by a sniper 2 screens away than get killed with the Barret from 1/8 of the screen"
- Michal Marcinkowski, 1.2 beta testing.

But the problem with that is, everyone hates campers too. If you don't want them to be moving, or staying still, what the hell do you want them to be doing?

they want them to die.

Thanks for the history lesson Chakra.

Ya know, whenever a new vershion came out the first thing I did was check out the vers. history in the manual. That is slightly confusing... But thanks to you I now know a lot more about this game and about the proccess that went into makning it better.

Time to go play some soldat!

The Hall of Fame was suposed to have a section for History and this could have been perfect for that.
Allas, its halted untill someone takes over it.

OMG LOL 8 SHOT 4 SHOT KILL RUGER PLZ SO ITS MO' BALANCED AND 30 SHOT 6 SHOT KILL AK FO' BALANCE PLZKTHX!!! :O

You have good english skills Chakra =O Kept me interested while reading this.

so many good times.

Its not really weapons that are overpowered anymore, its styles of play. Take for example 2 sprayers main route + nade spam. Pretty hard to beat.

I agree with Poop. You rarely see any semi-autos in clan wars anymore. In 1.2.1 ruger and DE were much more useful in clanwars and could counter autos easiely.

You two sure? I may be out of the loop a little, but i'm fairly sure that an auto and semi-auto can clean up a group of enemies alot quicker than a team of autos, or even versus them. Especially since 1.3. It's a classic mixture... eg: b2b, ruger weakens both opponents to half, auto wipes them out. It's the classic wash-and-dry.
Always found the ruger much harder to use in a CW environment in 1.2.1 ...you two be some cuhrayzee wigga's, yo.

Still, back on topic, not everything I say can be considered absolute fact, as it's really just observation from my point of view. Anyone wanna add their version to whatever period of Soldat, or fill in the gaps, go for it.

Eh. To my experience, playing skill always - ALWAYS - overpowers weapon balance. Back in those 1-hit-kill-twilight-zone times of 1.1.3 I used to be an avid user of the HK, above all Autos. I was more than proficient with it, and loved working with it to beat some other great players at DNAgames with a ping of 260+ and absolutely no anti-lag system. As I hope you all remember (whoever played that version) the majority of the European elite was M79 and Barret. To refresh your memory further: The HK was the least powerful of the autos back in those days (aside from the FN Minimi, perhaps, but nobody [CENSORED]ing used it). It had low range, low damage, and with lag, low hit rate. You had to spray ahead of your target to register hits. It was also far less accurate than the AK or AUG at medium-long ranges. I still used the HK and had fun with it. Sure, I could have done better if I had put in the effort with a generally more dominant gun, but I didn't want or need to. I remember that it was me, Tribal (both at 1.1.3), and the leader of the clan -SPW- (1.0.5b, don't even remember his name) that actually used that gun in matches and took it seriously before the autos got their various boosts.

This wasn't a brag clause. This was proof that with fun and dedication you can pretty much kill anyone. 1.1.3 was a great example of a harder fight against the odds. That is my point. That always was my point. Enjoy the game and you will get better at it: Fun makes you play with fervor and put in more time in doing so, increasing your skill more rapidly than mild gameplay. Fun only comes to you when you let it.

To stop being nice: Just shut the [CENSORED] up and find your niche. Believe it or not, it can be all of the weapons roster at once. I did that myself. Who needs weapon balance when skill is always superior?

Oh shut up tfs you noob I always owned you <_<...khm...
Yeah isn't nostalgy fun. You forgot 1.05b chakra.

105b's m79 :) ahhh

and you had to shoot like 2 cm above your opponent

I weren't around then guv. [CENSORED] knows what you guys got upto.


Skill overpowering balance? we can't have those kinda thoughts around here...

'tis true, however. Still, I think it can be established that theres a familiar 'skill range' for most experienced players, and those that excel in any field are truly quite remarkable. Il Nadj always comes to mind, his ak74 being able to hit with all shots and killing as quick as a barret, and others who have proven themselves superior by never missing a shot with an mp5, steyr and even shotgun from any position and range. It's quite jaw-dropping to witness.

Still, for the rest of us average normal people who aren't gifted, sell their souls to the devil, take reflex-enhancing drugs, or spend too much time on the game (the fins), we have balance :)

I really like this topic.

I didn't know in what version I started playing but I think it's 1.1.3 or before. I remember the chainsawers and knivers spawnkilling the whole (alpha) team and most people just left without whining. I also remember something like 'OMG they added secondaries!' but that's vague.

If I'd had to rate the diffrent oldat versions I think 1.2 or 1.2.1 receives the highest rating. Not with a huge diffrence from 1.3.1 (like only 0.5% diffrence) but I liked the fact that 1.2 hadn't got bink (or not as much as now). 1.2.1 had bink but just a little , so I don't really care about that.
1.3.1 has a little bit too much bink I think (hey that rhimes). I like spending my whole Auto mag at once, not burst-fire. In that version you could just shut down you brains and play. In 1.3 and 1.3.1 you have to think constantly about not firing too much because of the bink , dodging several weapons because they bink you too much etc. . I like Soldat because of the fact that you can turn of your brain while at it and because it has some brutality that is actually fun. bink and selfbink tend to take that away from me a bit.
ofcourse the new functions in 1.3.1 (like the barret-delay , knife-throwing , ...) compensate that (I like those new functions) but still , I'm missing something I had in 1.2 and 1.2.1.


Grtz , DePhille

Nice post U got there Chakra :)

quote:Originally posted by Chakra`
My memory on secondaries is a little hazy, but I do remember contraversy over the chainsaw of all things. There wasn't that discreet 3-seconds of invincibility upon respawn like we have now, and chainsaw was instant-kill on touch with unlimited ammo, so you can imagine the results!


Good old days ;D should make a 1.1.4 tourny and let the nabs try the saw

Eh! You know NOTHING! LAW + Being able to shoot in air while proned + no delay timer OR startup timer = pwn ;>
And yes I loved 1.05b. Where barret and m79 ruled, allthough only red side for barret since left low angle was COMPLETELY random for barret and that was a blind spot for barreters. Which I gladly used in duels...ha...Then Deagles sucked so bad nobody used them ever because you needed like 4 shots to kill anyone, and with lag that's way too much. mp5 sucked royally too. Basically, Barret and m79, if you didn't use that you just couldn't be all that good. Since you got OWNED completely by them. Unless you were in the barreters left lower corner shooting him...hehe ;p

I dunno why, but I have this feeling Saw only came after 1.2 (maybe its because I never used it before) even though I know its not true.

Also, just wondering, I don't recall anyone complaining about the LAW back in 1.1.5.
Actualy I do believe that the law complaints came in 1.2
I wonder why is that..
Same with Ruger, it killed in 2 shots in 1.1.5 as well.
why didn't anyone spray with it like they did and still do in the later versions?

This is truely a thing to ponder about.
Because it could solve future problems or even could posses an alternative solution to already solved problems that were solved with changing the balance.
which caused other problems, wich created the need to more solutions that were also solved by new featuers and balance changes that also created new problems, which were solved by EVEN MORE balance changes, etc etc etc...
A snow ball.

Personally, methinks 1.2.1 had the best balance.

quote:Actualy I do believe that the law complaints came in 1.2
It's simple. All complaints about single-shot weapons came with the hundreds of new auto users.

quote:Originally posted by Coaster ManPersonally, methinks 1.2.1 had the best balance.

Just out of curosity, when did you start playing?

Good 'ol days of mid-air laws... =) PLEASE MICHAL GIVE US BACK OUR MIDAIR LAWS!!!!!!!