Is it amazing skills? Excellent teamwork? A strong presence in the community?

It seems to me that many of the forum greats don't necessarily always place in the top three for tournaments, and those who do win constantly aren't nearly as personable or as intelligent as the community "players". Which is better than the other? I'm just trying to get a feel for what the community values in a member.

I guess if you have a good Point to Death ratio makes a good player. But if you are looking for more than statistics, it's personality. I hate players who walk a deathmatch, quickly make it to the top, then quit with a "ur all noobs".

Certain players are known for certain things, some are known for their skills with a given weapon, some are known as great leaders, some are known as great contributers to the community i.e. modders/programmers etc

P:D ratio just proves how much of a health [CENSORED] somone is. Good players dont spawn camp, spaz boost, mini surf, use M79 to boost, dont just grab the flag and run away instead of actually killing people.

I think there are many variables. I mostly play death match and about every round i play i finish in the top 1/4. As long as you dont play cheaply, camp, thing like that, your good.

Good players move well. Good players play smart. They work well with their teammates. They don't make selfish moves, i.e. going for the flag or otherwise getting in the way of teammates when their teammate has a better chance at succeeding. They will always put the success of the team before their own personal success; in other words, they'll happily have a horrible K:D in a match if it means they did something to help their team win. They don't talk trash, ever, even when they are provoked to do so. They aim well, can use several weapons with at least competency and a few weapons very well, and understand the way that certain weapons complement each other in game.

Good players can't be judged by pure talent, at least in my opinion. A player should be judged by how he interacts with his teammates, and especially by how he thinks. A player who thinks about what he is doing is a good player.

Being able to master nades. That's pretty much it.

A solid knowledge of geology.

@ Geo: That means you're the only good player in the history of Soldat :o

I tend to value players who are open minded, do smart plays, and has a bit of talent. However, these three things can be completely overshadowed by their attitude.

fairness.

Thou shalt treat thy enemy as sportingly as one would want to be treated thyself.

I believe that a player who sums up his opponent well, that is, finds their strengths and weaknesses, and can exploit them to his/her benefit would be the best player in the game. This 'player' would require smarts to use a variety of weapons to do this too.

Also,
* No hacks
* Teamwork (in team games)
* Communicates (talks AND listens)

I think teamwork and awareness myself. Points don't impress me since a lot campers or blind auto-sprayers generally have a favorable point-to-kill ratio. A good flag pass or sacrificing yourself if needed to defend/return return impresses me more than a bunch of kills.

Chances are, no matter how genius your tactics may be, people aren't going to listen to the person who has a K:D ration of 1:14. Points do matter.

@Enesce

Wow. You really have a biased view.

@Topic

The best soldier in soldat, it comes down to versatility and dynamic play. The best soldat has a mastery of every gun, with knowledge of all ways the gun can be used with the ability to use them the best ways possible, and quick thinking to know what gun to use to best suit every situation, and to make use of what they have to accomplish what they need to win, or to help their team win. They are excellent killers, able to kill people onsight and move efficiently to keep himself as minimally damaged as possible. He is able to predict to an extent his opponent, adapt, and counter any attempt his opponent makes. He works efficiently with a team, giving out his end to win the game through any means necessary, with an attitude of play that reflects the team over himself. His style is always changing, making him unpredictable. He moves like liquid, kills with a majestic grace, using every advantage he has, otherwise making advantages for himself.

All of that, plus 1000 or 30 posts and a rep bigger then his head.

quote:Originally posted by AugustusIs it amazing skills? Excellent teamwork? A strong presence in the community?
The skills are by far what matters most. Let's not forget that the forums were made as a second hand angle of soldat. So the forums "intelligence" can never be a first priority.

What marks a good player, would be a neat "average ratio". I mean, you can be however good with spas, fx, but if you don't know teamwork you're as good as anyone. You don't have to be a pro with every weapon to be a good player.
Not to be a smart ass, but i consider myself a fair player. I have specialized in mp5, steyer and barret. This is what i do, so now all i really do is practising my footwork.
I really like good teamwork, and i find it making the game much more challenging than just storming the front.

A good player should be aware of his surroundings, and have a good overwiev of the battle. Some maps are better than others for this, but you get the generel picture. When his teammates needs replacement and such.
This, ofcourse, can be hard if your teammates are retards, but i guess you'll just have to make the best of it =P

Skills matters - everyone knows that, but good footwork and perspective are the most essential aspects of this. Or so i believe.
echo out

What makes a player good? His enemies.

Good player:
*Uses all possible movements and strategies in Soldat (play climb maps, some movements you will learn there are very useful).
*Has matered spraying with certain weapons, which mostly is LAW, but I don't mean luck spraying. I mean shooting when you actually know someone is there and you'll hit him. For example, I played with ruger realistic and I think to myself all the time "This shot will hit someone", then I wait for the moment my soul tells me to push the button and let it shoot to the other side, gladly seeing "You killed...". Also man, use the law as a mortar - that's proffesionality. Being able to calculate where the enemy will be when the law will land or just take out some snipers.
*Professional barreteer - use the weapon as it's intended, that means, when you spawn, just sit down and kill somone with the first shot by shooting all over the map to the enemy camp. Also you must move all the time so the enemy can't predict where the next barret bullet will land. I hate people who actually go to close range fights with a barret. Common, even if you can kill others with it from 2 metres, don't use it, it just spoils your style. It's just not right. Have some other weapon with you, like that pistol thingy.
*Can master climb maps.
*Can get a positive ratio in realistic using only saw or even fists. No knife, knives are for wannabe pro's.
*Not only can throw a nade directly on a person, but predict where the enemy will be and throw the nade somewhere on the ground, where it can't be seen and the enemy runs on it.
*Sometimes thinks not only of his ratio and his stats, but, for example, he gets a flag, runs to the base, but knows that he will be killed. In front of him there are teammates close to the flag. What do people usually do here? They run further. What pro would do - throw the flag to the teammates so they can score and then settle with the attacking enemies. A pro player thinks about teams good not his. For example, he may be in one zone guarding it all the time and having low kills, but when an enemy which may be a threat to the flag approaches, it is eliminated and the flag is guarded thanks to this player.
*Player which actually tells something in the team chat when their flag is stolen, or when they require certain strategy for the win.
*Very good aim with all weapons, because in some maps some weapons are better than others and you have to switch.
*Excellent footwork and jetwork combined with acrobatics, because they pwn.
*Good stealth aka prediction and calculation skills.
*Good ratio - little deaths.
*I should mention good attitude, because this is a good player not an evil player, but as I don't have it, I won't. :D

You're all wrong :P

A good Soldat player is someone who others enjoy playing with. That's it.

I don't think anyone can strongly argue that Soldat is a difficult game to learn. Anyone can become average within a few days of playing, and anyone who is devoted can be almost on par with the best with a certain weapon if they play with it for only a few weeks. We can admire ourselves all we want, but the truth is, any new player who really enjoys the game is going to catch up to the more advanced skill levels in a short time. As long as you enjoy this game, you will become skilled enough soon.

I think the best players are the ones that you can have fun with. People who do not mind losing, people who do not complain, people who do not brag, people who do not abuse bugs or weapons to make it less fun for others; these are the best players.

Here's a whole bunch of crap I said in an old post:

quote:Novice players use instakill weapons exclusively, regardless of map, opponents, whatever. They are constants, a coefficient in a function that has no variables. My theory regarding the majority of these players is that they believe the "best" weapons overall are the ones that kill in one shot, simply because everything else takes more than one shot (and thus must be better by default), and/or they lack the creativity and sensibility to identify a situation as being better handled with a different weapon. Since they don't know any better, they generally keep on using their one choice over, and over, and over.
This happens to many, many players (especially casual ones, most likely), and once the numbers swell large enough, you end up with them comprising the majority of the population in many public servers. This ultimately creates a gameplay nightmare that consists of players rarely accomplishing more than spawning, firing one or two shots (that don't necessarily hit, of course), and then being killed in one hit, only to respawn and repeat the process. The process often doesn't take as long as ten seconds to cycle through. This is what I consider to be the Instakiller Loop that is the bane of Soldat. Thus, while generally not a real threat to higher level players when encountered alone, in numbers Novice players are capable of effectively ruining the gameplay experience through the Instakiller Loop.
Beginners at Soldat typically start at this level (myself included), and so the number of people entering this level generally exceeds the number of people ascending to the next step.

Average players are those who come to realize for themselves that, in one way or another, the Novice style of play is an inferior way to play the game; I myself graduated to this level when I realized I was trapped in the Instakiller Loop. It is at this point that the player starts to experiment with the other weapons, until they become accustomed enough to one of them to use it with some accuracy; not as easily done as said, considering the exclusiveness of weapons in the Novice level means that they are not accustomed to using the autos or other non-instakillers. However, although the scope of the weaponry utilized by the player widens, it is not by a truly considerable amount; the habit of exclusively working with one gun almost all the time still remains, but the instakilling factor has been removed, effectively ending the player's contribution to the Instakiller Loop. I myself used the ruger almost exclusively when I was at this level.

Experienced players are those who personally come to realize and accept the idea that no weapon is truly suitable to be used exclusively. At this point, the player begins experimenting again, this time taking note of what maps and situations are best for certain weapons when combined with their personal style of play. Embracing all the weapons, the Experienced player becomes far more versatile and dynamic than than players in lower levels, making them generally better players overall.
However, this does not mean that the Experienced player is a "pro" or "leet" soldat. Due to the very wide scope of weaponry used, in addition to varying play styles and overall amount of time spent playing and how it is played (clan member or not, casual or hardcore, etc), the range in skill among Experienced players can vary greatly. I consider myself to be at this level.

It is by these criteria and these alone that I categorize players by. Camping (which I happen to condone) and other strategies/tactics that are considered controversial have nothing to do with it.
Lastly, my theory is one I constructed from my personal experiences as a soldat player, which consists of playing entirely on public servers, and going as far back as when the USSOCOM was the only secondary (whatever that version number was).

a good player is skilled but has some caracter. if your being a prick your not a good player. a good player is someone who has not complained about an overpowerd weapon without a solution in mind. A good player, will not call you a noob unless you clearly are one. and a good player knows the secret command :) even though it is not so much of a secret now

I've played for a while, and I've found that when I compliment other people, and basically followe the advice people have been posting, my overall game experience has been alot more positive.

if he likes cheese hes good in my books.

quote:Originally posted by YoMammasMammaHere's a whole bunch of crap I said in an old post:

quote:Novice players use instakill weapons exclusively, regardless of map, opponents, whatever. They are constants, a coefficient in a function that has no variables. My theory regarding the majority of these players is that they believe the "best" weapons overall are the ones that kill in one shot, simply because everything else takes more than one shot (and thus must be better by default), and/or they lack the creativity and sensibility to identify a situation as being better handled with a different weapon. Since they don't know any better, they generally keep on using their one choice over, and over, and over.
This happens to many, many players (especially casual ones, most likely), and once the numbers swell large enough, you end up with them comprising the majority of the population in many public servers. This ultimately creates a gameplay nightmare that consists of players rarely accomplishing more than spawning, firing one or two shots (that don't necessarily hit, of course), and then being killed in one hit, only to respawn and repeat the process. The process often doesn't take as long as ten seconds to cycle through. This is what I consider to be the Instakiller Loop that is the bane of Soldat. Thus, while generally not a real threat to higher level players when encountered alone, in numbers Novice players are capable of effectively ruining the gameplay experience through the Instakiller Loop.
Beginners at Soldat typically start at this level (myself included), and so the number of people entering this level generally exceeds the number of people ascending to the next step.

Average players are those who come to realize for themselves that, in one way or another, the Novice style of play is an inferior way to play the game; I myself graduated to this level when I realized I was trapped in the Instakiller Loop. It is at this point that the player starts to experiment with the other weapons, until they become accustomed enough to one of them to use it with some accuracy; not as easily done as said, considering the exclusiveness of weapons in the Novice level means that they are not accustomed to using the autos or other non-instakillers. However, although the scope of the weaponry utilized by the player widens, it is not by a truly considerable amount; the habit of exclusively working with one gun almost all the time still remains, but the instakilling factor has been removed, effectively ending the player's contribution to the Instakiller Loop. I myself used the ruger almost exclusively when I was at this level.

Experienced players are those who personally come to realize and accept the idea that no weapon is truly suitable to be used exclusively. At this point, the player begins experimenting again, this time taking note of what maps and situations are best for certain weapons when combined with their personal style of play. Embracing all the weapons, the Experienced player becomes far more versatile and dynamic than than players in lower levels, making them generally better players overall.
However, this does not mean that the Experienced player is a "pro" or "leet" soldat. Due to the very wide scope of weaponry used, in addition to varying play styles and overall amount of time spent playing and how it is played (clan member or not, casual or hardcore, etc), the range in skill among Experienced players can vary greatly. I consider myself to be at this level.

It is by these criteria and these alone that I categorize players by. Camping (which I happen to condone) and other strategies/tactics that are considered controversial have nothing to do with it.
Lastly, my theory is one I constructed from my personal experiences as a soldat player, which consists of playing entirely on public servers, and going as far back as when the USSOCOM was the only secondary (whatever that version number was).


Surely you do not count sawers as under this catagory? :O

I have a hard time deciding, actually. Despite all the great views posted here, I don't know how to explain how I determine if a player is "good" at what he does. I just somehow know it. Maybe it's the powers of assumption, or maybe it's just subconscious observation. I don't know.

you know, i agree with you kazuki. I mean, you can set up all kinds of "standarts", but in the end, only actual gameplay can tell.

quote:Originally posted by EnEsCeP:D ratio just proves how much of a health [CENSORED] somone is. Good players dont spawn camp, spaz boost, mini surf, use M79 to boost, dont just grab the flag and run away instead of actually killing people.


that is quite a load of [CENSORED]e..

good players should know how to m79 boost and spas boost efficiently as it is a very good way of trying to return the flag, catching up to the efc as they are running away.. also to try and come in from above the efc and return that way, but either way it is still somthing that good players use, and only those who are too noobish to realise the fact that you can jump higher using a m79 whines about it.. and having a good KD means your a health [CENSORED]? mate, it sounds as if you really dont have a clue..

Well these are just some general ideas of good people to play with.

1. Doesnt act like a jerk
-Showing off all the time (OMG I POONED YOU NOOBZ, FIRST AGAIN!)
-Shooting your team's flag just to be an ass.
-Insulting people generally because you're "better" than them or if they're (fairly) beating you
-Shouting "I WIN!" When your team wins.

2. Capable of using different weapons
-Doesnt use the same exact weapon every time you meet them
-After a favorite weapon of theirs is nerfed, they'll train with it and get used to the nerf.
-Limit their choices to Barret, m79, Law. (I say this because I've noticed many people I play with stick to this combo, even when the combo is the cause for their loss)
-Has an idea of what weapon to use in certain situations.

3. Works well with his/her team
-Protects friendly flag carriers when necessary
-gives teammates a general idea of where an enemy flag carrier/enemies are heading (whenever possible)
-Doesnt shoot their teammates like a tard. Or team kill on purpose.

4. Has some damn common sense.
-Contiue to camp when you see your flag stolen
-When you hear your flag is stolen, you will not keep all your focus to what's infront of you and check your back to see if the flagger is coming.
-Not being the BIGGEST dedicated [CENSORED] ever. What I mean is, using an m79 for example, but that gun is causing you to lose, badly. (Man, I must say, I've seen this so much)
-Nadespamming an area while your team is there, causing them to get unwillingly boosted

5. Plays fair
-Refrains from getting to a spot which is impossible/very difficult for people to get you and camp.
-Refrains from m79 jumping (say what you want, its cheap...Grabbing the flag and boosting off is cheap as hell, especially since you rarely get damaged by the blast for some stupid reason) Honestly I would say m79'ing in general but, I wont :S
-Doesnt worm around in the damn air.
-Spawning when its really UNNECESSARY!
-Going into a tunnel and barret spam...just think about Equinox, and the people yelling "OMG 200M SHOT! I ROX"

There's probably more that i forgot but yeah. I Honestly don't think actual "skill" matters. It's nice to have killer aim but as long as you can play nicely...

pfft, category #2 Is really most important to me.

I guess u dont like the m79 very much... but you cover it pretty well there.

They must have an overall view of what's going on. I can't tell you HOW many times I've been on Laos and just waited for someone to pass, and then nabbed the flag. A good player should look up down left and right and respond accordingly. A good player doubles back when he sees the EFC moving around.

I also like players who tell who what's going on. You know where the EFCs are and can avoid incoming enemies.

depends on the game mode
but for me, generaly it's an inteligent player with whom i can have a fun game, a player that uses all weapons, tries to do different and unusual things, isn't predictable, maybe even plays chaoticaly and takes stupid risks
people who are just fun
maybe theyre not the most reliable people and dont allways win but hey, if i want to play with linear dull braindead morons that master just one weapon and stick to it ill play with bots

I like 'em when they don't take these kind of things seriously.

The best players have the most fun, easy.

Being able to troll people in-game, either through well picked insults or tactics. Bringing genuine emotion to the game, if necessary by getting people to hate your nick. Or by being a 'great team mate', both.

Games aren't serious - coordinating a player sprite and an aim cursor is just one of the best wastes of time I know of!

If it's about actual game skill and not personality/"community cred" we're talking about, a good player is easy to define. He has:
teamwork/communication,
versatility/originality,
strategy,
intelligence,
and just down-right good aim and movement.

Sure, it's nice if they're not total [CENSORED]s too.

A good Soldat player treats others with respect, prefers playing in an honourable and fair way, puts his team as a unit ahead of himself and got the balls/ovaries to walk out of a lost match with the head held high.

Being a lethal Soldat player has nothing to do with goodness. The person could just as well be evil and unholy.

A soldat player dosent have to be skilled or seriously devoted to be good, all it needs is that he plays and do his best to have a good time with other people........

A good player will camp, spawn, m79 boost and minisurf his way to victory. Cheesy players (like EnEsCe) will complain and votekick.

A good player hey...

Someone who generally kills a lot, knows the best tactics for counter measures against both weapons and play styles, is skilled with at least 2 or 3 primary weapons, and can do what it takes to pwn without ever being called "cheap".

If someone is unpleasant to play with personality-wise, is that to say their skill is bad? No.

Because someone may help the community a lot by setting up cool servers, making cool bots and stuff, doesn't make them good at actually playing the game. They can be cool people, but since it is not actually connected to playing the game directly, they are not good players by default.

quote:Originally posted by Swarmer in response to my earlier post
Surely you do not count sawers as under this catagory? :O


There are exceptions to every rule, my friend. Heck, I might have been one of the first to have a profile/character made specifically for fighting with a saw; and it's not in contradiction to my before-posted philosophy, due to the fact that the saw is such a downright impractical weapon that using it as an exclusive primary is the sort of retarded thing a person would only do in order to challenge themselves, or as a way of making the game more interesting/fun in general. In other words, it's the sort of retarded thing that aims to accomplish the very things everyone ought to try to do when they play.




As for a-4-year-old's remark about the secret command... Either knowing it being a "requirement" to be "good" or my being a "good player" has become quite questionable, as I have yet to learn just what the secret command is, or what it even does for that matter :P
Gimme a break, though--it's hard to get around to playing Soldat and finding out those kinds of things when you're busy winning cash prizes in Bingo while aboard a cruise ship sailing around Jamaica.




Lastly, in light of all the attitude/behavioral traits being named, I'd like to add that such traits may likely be customary with the increase in weapon variety as described in my earlier post, since the progression towards both typically require one to become increasingly open-minded. I just wanted to share that with you all since it just now dawned on me; and it does form a nice little link between the gameplay and personal aspects. Perhaps open-mindedness would even be the best description if all the qualities of a "good Soldat player" had to be summed up at once.




EDIT: Fixed up a fairly unreadable first paragraph.

Anyone who is Friendly and Selfless is cool with me.

quote:Originally posted by 3rd_accountA good Soldat player treats others with respect, prefers playing in an honourable and fair way, puts his team as a unit ahead of himself and got the balls/ovaries to walk out of a lost match with the head held high.

Being a lethal Soldat player has nothing to do with goodness. The person could just as well be evil and unholy.

This is what you need to be succesful in clans, i completely agree.

swarms right, all you need to do is have a good reputation and it doesnt matter your actual skill, as long as u dont play like a noob and camp or hack

I reckon a good soldat player just needs to be fair and hav fun.

To me, a good player is someone who has good sportsmanship.

quote:Originally posted by AugustusIs it amazing skills? Excellent teamwork? A strong presence in the community?

It seems to me that many of the forum greats don't necessarily always place in the top three for tournaments, and those who do win constantly aren't nearly as personable or as intelligent as the community "players". Which is better than the other? I'm just trying to get a feel for what the community values in a member.


HO HO HO!
I didn't even bother to read the rest of the thread, I'm talking directly to you buddy.

Long time ago I realized that this is exactly the question each soldat player eventualy asks himself.
And the less confident of us , or the more immature will just choose the main stream of the period.
That's why you saw barrets untill 1.1.5, everyone used it and based "good" clans on it.
Today however the main problem relys on the fact that when a n00b asks himself that, the answer is :
"Be a smartass, win as much as you can by any prise because winning will get respect"

In the past if a plater try to multi clan/cheat or whatever in a leauge, he would be banned and his clan would be punished.

Today you can easly get away with something like that.. the community dosent care..

Haha, I remember 1.1.5, that's when I joined, and while I remember the barret problem, I have always been frustrated with the m79. I do see what you're saying though, and while I'm not currently involved in any leauges, I am shocked that cheating and multi-clanning is acceptable...

P.S. -
~~~*<3*~~~
I care!1!
~~~*<3*~~~

quote:Originally posted by Ok[quote]
HO HO HO!
I didn't even bother to read the rest of the thread, I'm talking directly to you buddy.

Long time ago I realized that this is exactly the question each soldat player eventualy asks himself.
And the less confident of us , or the more immature will just choose the main stream of the period.
That's why you saw barrets untill 1.1.5, everyone used it and based "good" clans on it.
Today however the main problem relys on the fact that when a n00b asks himself that, the answer is :
"Be a smartass, win as much as you can by any prise because winning will get respect"

In the past if a plater try to multi clan/cheat or whatever in a leauge, he would be banned and his clan would be punished.

Today you can easly get away with something like that.. the community dosent care..


I don't remember any past incidents or punishments ?

I say a good soldat player has more points than deaths at the end of the game. Nothing else matters.

quote:Originally posted by jrgpI say a good soldat player has more points than deaths at the end of the game. Nothing else matters.


Hope you never have to return all game against a camp happy group then.

Good, well you are good if you don't tell everyone "you [CENSORED]ing noob!"

I would say, good player comes from good personality and style within playing.
Skills, the style, the way of playing.

Not just to kill the most.

$k1llz0rX

 Quote:Originally posted by Ok
Today you can easly get away with something like that.. the community dosent care..


But Ok, those players have been punished (sctfl; tnl didn't take any action so far afaik - it happened when the season was over already), and their clan (I mean ES, not EF) now has a bad enough reputation. They didn't even get invited in IPC.