So you're in a tight game to 50...you're in first, and another pretty good player is also. You both have 49. Lucky for you, you spot a bleeding baratard who has his back to you trying to take cover. You fly up to him and prepare to win the game with your trusty degles when suddenly your body splits into 90 blood-splattering parts, and you realize you were one milisecond too late. Major, using an m79, has decended on you, and one second later the other guy wins.

One too many times this has happened.
In the 9 or so monthes i've been playing, there is no weapon i hate more than the m79. Its just so distressing when you see some nub with an m79 coming at you while you're reloading a ruger, just waiting to die...

I think we need to tune the m79 down a little. In 3.1 it didn't noticeably change at all. We've taken care of the barat, now what about the m79?

If you hate this idea (and maybe me too) then i'll just have to stick to my non-instantkillingweapons server and wait.


VOTE

Click below to vote on your opinion of the M79.

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um if he was weak, why couldnt you hust shoot him from far away? Wdf...

I have seriously no problem with m79.

thats really irrelavant

but if you must know i was flying up the far right of bigfalls and the dude was at the top...

I know some people think m79s are fine how they are, but others dont.

those who think the m79 is fine, are m79 user themselves. I agree with you. you know something is wrong when 85% of soldat players all use the damn weapon

I've played Soldat for a good two years or so now... and I'd like to say I can use all the weapons fairly well. I can provide excellent backup with the minigun--king of all newbie weapons--just as I can lay waste to sprayers with my trusted spas.

But if there's one weapon that sits highest on my charts, it's the M79. I've 'defined' myself, so to speak, on Soldat public servers with it. Eventually getting cocky enough to call myself a self-proclaimed M79 king. I almost always find my mark on my best days, only missing an occasional shot. On my worst, I still get over half my shots to hit. I love the aim you have to use with the M79-- it's different from all the other weapons.

No, I'm probably not the best user of the weapon there is... but I enjoy jokingly insinuating that I am :)

Most of the other weapons just involve aiming right at the target and firing, or following the target along and firing.

There are only two weapons in the game used for excellent 'crowd control'-- the minigun and the M79.

Let's say you're on a map where a teammate has the flag, and a horde of enemies is coming in your direction. With any other weapon you COULD get mowed down, but if you're a significant distance away you can push them back temporarily with the minigun, buying your boy some time.

Even then it's not as effective as the M79-- get a direct hit on that oncoming group and you might take out one or two, and severely damage the rest. Hit in front of them, it stops their run dead due to splashback, and they get hurt.

The M79 has a frustraiting reload time-- it's not too long, but it's long enough to cause panic if you're against an auto user. M79 users who know what they're doing find themselves dodging bullets while reloading, trying to buy enough precious time to save themselves or, at the least, take their assailent down with them.

M79 can be used as a suicide bomb against a close group of targets while at low health. If you're getting swarmed, fire into the ground and blow up someone with you. Great for a desperation situation--cheap, but a nice tactic.

M79 dog-fighting is intense... because there's no splashback to save you-- it's hit or die, or get lucky.

The splashback in general is great for taking out someone with low health that you can't quite get a precise shot on.

It's a unique weapon with many nice features-- you could call it overpowered, but all the weapons could be described the same. I could write an even longer rant on every weapon in the game and how they're stronger then another. The fact in Soldat is that a weapon itself isn't noobish or cheap-- it's the way it's used. That's my opinion anyway, that the soldier makes the weapon.

Sorry for going on a tirade there, I just wanted to express my opinion :P

Funny, all I hear is "whine whine whine"...you lost a match because someone chose an m79..get over it? It happens? Doesn't mean the gun is overpowered, since the bullets are easy enough to dodge and if it really was so crucial...perhaps you should have stated out of range? Could have done many things, but your arguement definately does not swade me that the m79 is in any way overpowered or "bad".

I can deal with weapons like the m79 on big maps, like b2b, shau, etc.. But in close maps, like nuubia, and arena2, there is nothing you can do. On big maps you can run away and lay waste to them with your ruger. However, in close matches there is NOTHING you can do You try and run, you have nowhere to go, you try and fight, and you're dead. Too many times I see a kampf map filled with m79 users, it isn't even funny. Something MUST be done, but I don't know what, perhaps a tiny delay? Like 1/3 of a second? Dunno. But yeah, I agree, m79's are too powerful.

I (somehow) dissagree with you Geo. I have found that ctf_whatever, has no stratagy in pubs. its all m79 for one team and a massacare for another team. There is a problem that cannot be brushed off with a "get over it." One may be easy to dodge, but 2 is much more difficult, because they can "surround you" with m79. 3 or more becomes almost impossible to "dodge" and than a bunch of m79s advance on your base and spawn the hell out of you. this becomes especially annoying when in ctf_voland, because m79ers in a way, camp above the only exit without requiring a boost or minigun surf to exit, only a few leave your base out of all of your team members.

to answer your question "It happens?" yes it does, way to often.

lol Psycho has 1000 posts even.

I've used m79 since the start and really, m79 is the easiest to dodge weapon, and if m79er misses, he's dead.

Of course that all changes if the other player is a dumb[CENSORED], and instead of keeping distance, he runs up close to m79er or when m79er misses and is reloading he's still keeping his distance.

It's not rocket surgery.

I hate M79 due to it's slow rate of fire and I also hate the ones who use it (I think I prefer campers now.. =/)

quote:Originally posted by The GeologistFunny, all I hear is "whine whine whine"...
Same here, I must have SENSE in my ears.

Actually chances are the m79 is going to get nerfed.

DEAGLEZ R OV3RP0W3RED BULL[CENSORED] @ND HAS T0 B3 N3RFED!!!!!!!111
and ban mike323, plz.

use m79 ur self st00pid n00b!!!!1 ahaha lol! [CENSORED]!

quote:Originally posted by _Mancer_Actually chances are the m79 is going to get nerfed.


Where did you hear this?

I bet he has connections with Michal

quote:Originally posted by Psychothose who think the m79 is fine, are m79 user themselves. I agree with you. you know something is wrong when 85% of soldat players all use the damn weapon


Thank Michal & the beta testers for that..
Befor 1.3.1 85% used Barret + Knife.. now everybody uses M79 + Socom.

Ah good.

quote:Originally posted by The Geologistquote:Originally posted by _Mancer_Actually chances are the m79 is going to get nerfed.


Where did you hear this?


90% of the soldat population hates it. Including me.

How will it be weakened, then? StartupTime or what?

but doesn't m79 already has a startup time ?

It's version 3.1 already? What the hell... Travelling through time is possible!

I agree though.

quote:Originally posted by karmazonbut doesn't m79 already has a startup time ?


yeah it takes a very long time for it to finaly shoot. i dont know how you could have gotten the skills to master that weapon.

Sigh...looks like what happened to the M82 is gonna happen again to M79. Personally I don't see how you hate the thing just because it owned you. When something ownings me I always figure out a way to own it back, and M79 is no exception. In close quarter maps high rate autos like Mp5 and Steyr-AUG can defeat it just by getting close and hitting with high accuracy of streaming bullets which can cause the bink affect and make it harder for M79 user to retaliate. I suggest you try to get close with the cover of throwing grenades in the process. Come to think of it, a fast Deagle clicker can also own the M79. Even if the M79 blows you up while you try to get close, he has a chance of getting blowed up himself by your nades and even might suffer concussion from his own M79 blast.

M79 has alot of weakness just like the other weapons. From it's considerable slow reload to it's ammunition of just one, I think it's justified that the M79 have a one hit KO specs. M79 is not an reliable long-range weapon as it's shots travel in arc and has decreased velcoity over time which makes fairly easy to dodge unless in point-blank or half a screen range. It's almost essential for a M79 user to get close in order to achieve a 100% hit accuracy, not to mention that if they miss they are seriously screwed and probably can only rely on Socom, knife or nades or just flee.

Alot of M79 using is predicting your opponent's movement (because of the arc and speed of M79 shells) in order to deal a successful blow, it's pretty hard compared to the usual point and shoot concept of other weapons so I say if other people has mastered the art of M79 they deserve to use it as a formidable weapon in Soldat.

Now I'm not fully rejecting the idea of tuning down the M79, but it seems no one has offered any suggestion on how exactly to tune it down. Maybe we should start adding a limited number of ammunition you can use for each weapon like the number of magazines or clips for each weapon at strat up and you can pick up extra ammuntion from supply boxes later.

Well I have to argue with being mad at the m79 just because it owned you. You can be mad at any one weapon for owning you, but with the m79, its one of the last weapons left there that gets instant kills easily for some people (maybe slightly harder for others). After the barat was delayed, all of the baratards resorted to the m79 for their weapon of choice. Now, if the m79 is make tough to master, then all of the m79ers will have to take up a different weapon or suffer the consequences.

Some ideas:
- Delayed fire
- Shells do 3/4 the damage
- Make the weapon inaccurate (not after firing, but during warm-up)
- Keep the weapon from firing except while kneeling or going prone

Hia. Long time no see.
Anyways, onto the topic, what mike has just suggested above is quite radical, and I do not think much people would agree with it. I find suggestions like that extremely selfish. Not only does it ignore the people who have mastered the current M79, it breaks the balance between all weapons in Soldat broken once again.

The M79 is not overpowered at all. One of the main arguments here posted above said that several m79s in a close quarters enviroment is difficult to dodge. Well, what weapon isn't? Any auto, spas, barret is just as unavoidable in that range.

Say, would it be better if instead of m79s everyone had a mp5/AUG/Ak-74/minimi/minigun in that situation? You'd be whining about 'spam and lag'. Spas? 'Spam, laggy, impossible to move forward because of push'. Barret? Oh, 'undodgable'. A ruger or deagle? Isn't that the 'overpowered 2 shot 1 kill weapon that is too accurate'?

If you look at any weapons in a certain way, all the weapons have problems. The complaints never end and even if you succede in nerfing a weapon a different weapon starts looking way too powerful. Once it was the barret and now its the m79. What next? If people don't stop whining all the weapons are going to be as powerful as foam bats. It's really absurd. Gosh, stop whining!

Again the point is that its an instant, easy kill.

m79 alone isnt over powered, a lone m79 user is fodder for any gun that it goes against, but as is the case in ALL pubs, there is an overwhelming amount of them, coming from both teams, is retarded, when you are in a game where there is nothing but m79s everywhere, its is painfully apparent that its over powered, the nerf i would like to see, is a decreased range of the shot, it actually seems that it got a range boost on 1.3.1, (mebey its just me, but that [CENSORED]er shoots far as [CENSORED] now) i dont know about how much of a nerf, but that would be a great nerf, plus it will make it more fun, when you see an m79 user and just rush up to them and make them blow them selves up as well, god i love doing that. but ya, nerf the range of m79, and i think that will make it less "overpowerd". but seeing how everyoen and their mother is complaining about it all the time, i bet its gonna get beat to death with the nerf stick, i dont care really i dont use it, i have, its fun, but if it gets nerfed i could care less (actually ill probally just laugh at all the people that exclusivly use the m79, and have never picked up another gun hahah)

The issue of the m79 is a unique one from other weapons, because it's the only instakiller left that sees what is, for the most part, a disproportionately wide-spread usage when compared with the other weapons. This leaves us with an additional question we have to answer before we can really consider making changes.

This question is whether "nerfing" the m79 will cause players to concentrate weapon usage on another single weapon (and thus further perpetuating the balancing process), or if the concentration of m79ers will dissolve (relatively) evenly throughout all the other weapons.

I think we'd all like to think that the latter is what would happen, but we have to make sure that we're not falling victim to simple wishful thinking. Thus, I suggest that we each, before doing anything else, determine the desired role(s) of the m79, how the m79 is being used currently, and then what could be done, if anything, to allow the m79 to fit within the ideal role(s) adequately. Naturally, I nor anyone else should expect the sheer volume of text that I always end up spewing into the forums (like below).


My personal vision for the m79 is a weapon designed to knock out tight groups of opponents--making it lethal when used to take out an incoming group of potential flag cappers, or taking advantage of places like the bottoms of Arena and Frosty's Snowland (or whatever it's called)--and for times and places that require being able to reach your opponent from an odd angle--such as ctf_Death. However, this should come at a cost; the m79 would should be somewhat difficult to perform well with when focusing on single targets (at least in open areas), and it should have a medium "safe" range--too close and you'll kill yourself, too far and you may not reach your target. Basically, the weapon is medium-range and effective against multiple targets.

The manner in which I see the m79 used now is typically one of two ways: high-speed rushes firing at close range, and quick long-range passes that possess a higher degree of accuracy than most single shots from guns like the barret, DEs, shotgun, and so on. It personally appears to me that the nature of the m79 allows it to be aimed with formidable accuracy (much of it due to the splash-damage area) once one overcomes the initial awkwardness of the weapon. This allows for strikes from over halfway across the screen in more open areas, even in mid-air, that more often than not connect. Additionally, close proximity to their own fired shell rarely results in death to a m79 wielder unless they have already suffered somewhat serious wounds. Death is pretty much guaranteed to the target, regardless of health.
Needless to say, these issues would not be worth addressing if the m79 were used in a healthy proportion to the other weapons. It is certainly difficult to simply "keep your distance," however, when there's someone with an m79 on every side of you; and it is this that frequently happens to be the case.

Thus, the solution in my eyes is to increase the lethalness of the m79 to the wielder himself, so as to discourage use at close ranges, and to give the m79 a combination of movement-binking (like the ruger) and hit-bink (like the barret)--although they won't each need to be as severe as their named examples. This should serve to adequately reduce the m79's effectiveness against single targets without having any real negative impact on its performance against groups.




Surely between the ideal, the problem, and the solution, we will all be able to come to an agreement on at least one thing.

I got it! Let's set a range limit for M79! The shell it shoots will only explode after it has at least traveled a certain amount of distance. This way the M79 user's aim will be challenged and they can't own you in close range. As to how exact the range limit is to be I would like to hear some suggestions.

Oh and another idea, if M79 were to fire in close range and the shell it shoots hits an enemy, let the enemy take a non-lethal damage and is knocked back.

So if there is any loop hole please point it out. I think it's a doable tune down.

quote:Originally posted by -Arbalest-I got it! Let's set a range limit for M79! The shell it shoots will only explode after it has at least traveled a certain amount of distance. This way the M79 user's aim will be challenged and they can't own you in close range. As to how exact the range limit is to be I would like to hear some suggestions.

Oh and another idea, if M79 were to fire in close range and the shell it shoots hits an enemy, let the enemy take a non-lethal damage and is knocked back.

So if there is any loop hole please point it out. I think it's a doable tune down.

I like.
I would like to keep the default shell in the weapons.ini because then the people who don't like that suggestion could still use the old m79 on certain servers.

quote:Originally posted by -Arbalest-I got it! Let's set a range limit for M79! The shell it shoots will only explode after it has at least traveled a certain amount of distance. This way the M79 user's aim will be challenged and they can't own you in close range. As to how exact the range limit is to be I would like to hear some suggestions.

Oh and another idea, if M79 were to fire in close range and the shell it shoots hits an enemy, let the enemy take a non-lethal damage and is knocked back.

So if there is any loop hole please point it out. I think it's a doable tune down.


Umm..does this seem backwards to anyone else? You want to limit the range of the m79...so that means people would be using it MORE often at close range. Unless you mean that the bullet has to get a certain amount of air/travel time before exploding which is just..nonsense. This would be a range requirement anyhow...not a range limit. No other bullet in the game requires a range or travel time before becoming effective, and with the fast paced play of the game such a requirement would almost kill the weapon (especially in close combat with autos). Your non-lethal damage suggestion makes just about as much as sense as the range idea, which is very little. Methinks these are just ideas from people cheesed off about getting too close and too sloppy one too many times, and imo are not solutions in any sense of the word but rather ways to insure you don't die at close range. That's not balance, that's a biased convenience.

Naw, having an m79 nade not explode until outside of a certain range isn't such a bad idea...after all, some m79s in real life do bounce until exploding.

3.5 to 4 second reload and it would be fine imho.

Also, I've never been in a public deathmatch in which I've had less than 4 times as many kills as everyone else.

quote:Originally posted by mike323Naw, having an m79 nade not explode until outside of a certain range isn't such a bad idea...after all, some m79s in real life do bounce until exploding.


So you're saying it's okay to kill the gun at close range in the effort of finding balance? That's not balance at all.

omg do i have to change my fav gun again because of nerfing? ;(
-barret *nerfed*
-m79 (current fav) *some r planning to nerf it*
-spas (will be next fav if m79 gets sh1tty) *people say that its overpowered = planning to get nerfed*

quote:Originally posted by The Geologistquote:Originally posted by mike323Naw, having an m79 nade not explode until outside of a certain range isn't such a bad idea...after all, some m79s in real life do bounce until exploding.


So you're saying it's okay to kill the gun at close range in the effort of finding balance? That's not balance at all.

How is that not balance? Everyone here agrees the problem is at close range, so why not take the close range out?

Because that would ruin the weapon at close range. Just because every one likes it doesn't mean it's a good way to balance the weapon. Instituting a minimum range would make the m79 next to useless in close firefights, which happen often. I agree with whomever posted that no one has come up with a suitable way to "balance" this weapon..too bad I happen to think it's fine as is. But I won't sitidly by to let people offer up ways to ruin a gun just because they're angry about getting killed at close range when there are plenty of ways to get around that problem.

With that said, I'm done speaking in circles with you. Good day.

Right...good day...erm

Well I won't argue anymore then, but leave it to others to post.

My little bit concerning the m79:

In terms of being overpowered, the only issue I have with the m79 is reload speed. Its rather fast, the thing is practicly an instant kill weapon, and very deadly in numbers. The power is fine, the splash is fine, its what defines the m79. The reload, needs to be nerfed, just a tad bit.

In terms of how easy it is to use, lets put it this way. I NEVER, EVER, EVER use the m79 unless I pick it up or unless im fooling around with it. Rarely do I actually use it. Occasionally for b2b but thats about it. But when I do use it, I have to admit, my skill with it is rather above decent, for not being an m79er whatsoever - it may be because I have a little added expertise due to my experience, but even a major picks it up and has no problem. Once you get past the arc, bam! - you're capable of pwning anyone who attacks you. I beleive a nerf on its ease is in need, such as a delay. What better way to scare away those little newbies, than a good ol' fashioned delay, slapped right onto that M79. They'll think twice about their attempts for easy kills. There are otherways to nerf it, but I forgot them. =x

The M79 is fine. In a recent study F8al3rror found that literally 20% of all shots don't register, either through lag or game design. And its true, I've hit a lot of shots only to watch the guy not even lose momentum.

The M79 is balanced by lag if nothing else.

Oh and to talk about someone saying M79 overpowered.

Its range is the MOST limited range of all things except the knife and chainsaw. Its primary use was for jumping and getting away, and they increased self damage, which makes M79 at close range harder since it does more damage to yourself by percent than to your enemy.

thanks for the double post that killed all credability.

but seriously, what happens when the bugs are fixed? IT IS OVERPOWERED.
and "increased self damage" hardly did anything. ppl can still jump on your ass and you can do nothing
and m79ers can still boost.
aim higher noob.

quote:Originally posted by -Arbalest-I got it! Let's set a range limit for M79! The shell it shoots will only explode after it has at least traveled a certain amount of distance. This way the M79 user's aim will be challenged and they can't own you in close range. As to how exact the range limit is to be I would like to hear some suggestions.

Oh and another idea, if M79 were to fire in close range and the shell it shoots hits an enemy, let the enemy take a non-lethal damage and is knocked back.

So if there is any loop hole please point it out. I think it's a doable tune down.


That's the most stupid idea I've ever seen in this forum.

How about this: let's nerf all the autos... their bullets will become ineffective after they have travelled a certain distance. Great idea, don't you think? This way we can stop all sprayers killing everybody from 10 miles away.

quote:How about this: let's nerf all the autos... their bullets will become ineffective after they have travelled a certain distance. Great idea, don't you think? This way we can stop all sprayers killing everybody from 10 miles away.

It's... already employed.

Yeah, the anti-spraying thing is already there. Here's an interesting idea:

Don't play in pubs.

It's not that difficult. If you can't handle a few kids killing you by chance/luck/laming (omfg wtf omg) or whatever, which by the way is really sad and says something about your character if you get pissed about people killing you in a game, then join a clan, or only play in private servers. You won't find so many M79s in clanwars.

M79 is fine as it is. It's easy to dodge and takes forever to reload. Use an auto or quick semi, play from a distance, spray him down. Deal with it. If you can't handle a pub full of M79s, maybe it's not their fault for being idiots, maybe it's just that you need to practice more and pay attention.

If you have troubles getting burned by the M79 the problem more likely is with you. Keep in mind the M79's weakness is it's range and relatively long reload time. It's as most effective when rushing or being rushed at.

I disagree that 90% of the soldat community hates m79. Its just that the percentage of the community which actually hates it is so loud they seem like alot of people.

People who are pleased dont say they are pleased.
People who are displeased let it be known that they are displeased.

You have to admit poop. its getting out of hand.

Like someone else said in this topic, The advantage is an m79er doesnt have to stop to kill you, they can just keep runnng no problem. M79 isnt that hard to learn as 3rd account said about range, it really takes a few minutes until you learn how to use its range.

m79 is a fun weapon, but its advatages beat all the others.

quote:Originally posted by -Arbalest-Sigh...looks like what happened to the M82 is gonna happen again to M79. Personally I don't see how you hate the thing just because it owned you. When something ownings me I always figure out a way to own it back, and M79 is no exception. In close quarter maps high rate autos like Mp5 and Steyr-AUG can defeat it just by getting close and hitting with high accuracy of streaming bullets which can cause the bink affect and make it harder for M79 user to retaliate. I suggest you try to get close with the cover of throwing grenades in the process. Come to think of it, a fast Deagle clicker can also own the M79. Even if the M79 blows you up while you try to get close, he has a chance of getting blowed up himself by your nades and even might suffer concussion from his own M79 blast.

M79 has alot of weakness just like the other weapons. From it's considerable slow reload to it's ammunition of just one, I think it's justified that the M79 have a one hit KO specs. M79 is not an reliable long-range weapon as it's shots travel in arc and has decreased velcoity over time which makes fairly easy to dodge unless in point-blank or half a screen range. It's almost essential for a M79 user to get close in order to achieve a 100% hit accuracy, not to mention that if they miss they are seriously screwed and probably can only rely on Socom, knife or nades or just flee.

Alot of M79 using is predicting your opponent's movement (because of the arc and speed of M79 shells) in order to deal a successful blow, it's pretty hard compared to the usual point and shoot concept of other weapons so I say if other people has mastered the art of M79 they deserve to use it as a formidable weapon in Soldat.

Now I'm not fully rejecting the idea of tuning down the M79, but it seems no one has offered any suggestion on how exactly to tune it down. Maybe we should start adding a limited number of ammunition you can use for each weapon like the number of magazines or clips for each weapon at strat up and you can pick up extra ammuntion from supply boxes later.


I'd adopt you if there was an adopt a forum newbie!

I use the steyr against the m79, long ramnge auto, so he has to hit from far out, with bink, and hit me.

Also, m79ers main game is relying that you move in a pre-determined route, so dont hold those jets, move in awkward fashion, thus ruining a good shot.

I can't agree with you on its reload, far too good. As for the ammo idea, has good thought, but destroys its arcade element, realistic maybe.

It could have a slowed reload time if you move while reloading.

 Quote:Originally posted by _Mancer_
m79 is a fun weapon, but its advatages beat all the others.


What the [CENSORED], no they don't. People keep saying stuff like this, but this statement is the culmination of stupidity on the subject. The M79's advantages are balanced out by other weapons, just like other weapon's advantages might be balanced out by the M79. If you're having trouble with an M79, grab a powerful auto like the AK or Minimi, or maybe a long-range semi like the Ruger, and take your opponent down from long range. Saying that it's advantages beat all others is stupid and defeatist.

 Quote:Originally posted by 3rd_accountIf you have troubles getting burned by the M79 the problem more likely is with you. Keep in mind the M79's weakness is it's range and relatively long reload time. It's as most effective when rushing or being rushed at.


I agree. If you find that being hit with an m79 is inevitable, learn to dodge the shots. The m79 doesn't shoot its bullet particularly fast, and if you're smart enough to be out of range of the easy, close-range shots, you have time to move away from where the shot will end up.
About m79 users running while shooting, this can also be countered. In general, if you're running at a consistent speed then you're easier to hit.
I think m79's range is good enough. If it's shortened, as mentioned, it will make it so m79 users will only take cheap, short ranged shots. Wasn't this the problem? If it is a problem at all, a solution could be to have a shot go through someone in a certain radius of the m79 user, like nades, except that it would make the self-inflicted damage even less frequent.

 Quote:Originally posted by lithium Quote:Originally posted by _Mancer_
m79 is a fun weapon, but its advatages beat all the others.

If you're having trouble with an M79, grab a powerful auto like the AK or Minimi, or maybe a long-range semi like the Ruger, and take your opponent down from long range.


And its stupid comments like that that make up a false statement. Sure, on paper it looks good, grab an AK and hit him, *LOLZ*

No. It isnt that easy. It will NEVER be that easy just to 'grab a weapon and kill its as easy as that"

The stupid comments like that excluse SOO much detail as to the fact why m79 is superior to those weapons. Just to name a few:

-1 hit kill (not that it shouldnt be, but it is in itself an ADVANTAGE)
-Hit and Run (An m79er doesnt even need to stop proving the right conditions.)
-Too short of a reload (Even if the first shot misses, its pretty unlikley for you to kill them the second time around if they run away from you and dodge you like most pussy m79ers do, so the reload needs to be longer so we actually have a fair chance at killing them)
-Hit radius is huge (Just because its short ranged and has an arch doesnt make it a challenging weapon to learn. The splash damage from an m79 is almost enough to take you out by itself. the fact that it pushs you is even more annoying. The people saying the arch and short range is an excuse for why its not overpowered is a lie because all the m79er has to do is just RUN at you and keep going after they blow you up. Then its a mere 2 seconds until they can shoot again.)

Dont call our comments stupid when the ones you claim make it easy on PAPER, not gameplay. There are so many factors, previous health, grenades, where you are on the map, how high/low you are, what gun you have, how much ammo and nades you have left, if the m79er is charging at you, if the m79er is reloading. Overall the m79 has the advantage on almost ALL of those listed above.

I gave it a delay of 30 and very few using it in my servers. Problem solved ;)

 Quote:-1 hit kill (not that it shouldnt be, but it is in itself an ADVANTAGE)

*It's in the nature of the gun. Bringing up the one-hit-kill is irrelevant.

 Quote:-Hit and Run (An m79er doesnt even need to stop proving the right conditions.)

*Neither does an AK user, a Ruger user, or any other gun user, proving the right conditions. I don't understand this argument. I can circle-strafe an opponent with my AK and not have to stop. How is that different?

 Quote:-Too short of a reload (Even if the first shot misses, its pretty unlikley for you to kill them the second time around if they run away from you and dodge you like most pussy m79ers do, so the reload needs to be longer so we actually have a fair chance at killing them)

*The reload is already so long that it's a huge crippling factor. There's plenty of time to chase them down. And if they run, it's not like you're obligated to run after them, you can work around them or control the high point to overpower them.

 Quote:-Hit radius is huge (Just because its short ranged and has an arch doesnt make it a challenging weapon to learn. The splash damage from an m79 is almost enough to take you out by itself. the fact that it pushs you is even more annoying. The people saying the arch and short range is an excuse for why its not overpowered is a lie because all the m79er has to do is just RUN at you and keep going after they blow you up. Then its a mere 2 seconds until they can shoot again.)

*I'll admit the splash damage is powerful, but it won't kill you unless you're already hurt. On your point of them being able to charge at you...hit them with a nade perhaps? It's basically the same weapon in hand-held form.

 Quote:Dont call our comments stupid when the ones you claim make it easy on PAPER, not gameplay.

I actually wasn't calling the other comments stupid, just yours. You just said point-blank that the M79 is better than all the other weapons. That's bull[CENSORED] and I called you on it.

 Quote:There are so many factors, previous health, grenades, where you are on the map, how high/low you are, what gun you have, how much ammo and nades you have left, if the m79er is charging at you, if the m79er is reloading. Overall the m79 has the advantage on almost ALL of those listed above.

You say that I make crap up that looks good on paper, then just say that the M79 has advantages in those situations but don't say HOW. I will argue my point with reason:

1/The high point is key. If you're higher than them, you have the advantage, especially if you keep your distance...it's not that hard to understand. In smaller maps obviously this is difficult, but in open maps you can easily gun down an M79 user from long range. Being above them simply kills them more quickly.

2/What gun you have is important. Autos can eat M79s alive. Spraying them down isn't that difficult.

3/If the M79 user is reloading is obviously important. If he's reloading he's defenseless. Certainly with your experience you know that the 2 seconds you have while they are reloading are ample time to kill them.

4/Charging. This is annoying but it can be countered...you can prone and dodge their shot, backflip if you're on the ground, throw a nade to blow up their M79 shell, et cetera, it's not impossible to beat the charge.

Mancer, I'm not just pulling this stuff out of my ass. You seem to assume that I haven't tried any of this, and I assure you I have. I'm not looking for a fight, but you have to admit that just saying the M79 is the best is pretty stupid and defeatist. I could easily make a similar argument that your beloved Ruger is too powerful for my AK and that therefore it should be nerfed immediately, even more so than it already has been. My point is that people tend to whine about the M79 because it's common and easy to use, instead of refining their tactics for combatting it. That's all.

 Quote:Originally posted by _Mancer_ Quote:Originally posted by lithium Quote:Originally posted by _Mancer_
m79 is a fun weapon, but its advatages beat all the others.

If you're having trouble with an M79, grab a powerful auto like the AK or Minimi, or maybe a long-range semi like the Ruger, and take your opponent down from long range.


And its stupid comments like that that make up a false statement. Sure, on paper it looks good, grab an AK and hit him, *LOLZ*

No. It isnt that easy. It will NEVER be that easy just to 'grab a weapon and kill its as easy as that"

The stupid comments like that excluse SOO much detail as to the fact why m79 is superior to those weapons. Just to name a few:

-1 hit kill (not that it shouldnt be, but it is in itself an ADVANTAGE)
-Hit and Run (An m79er doesnt even need to stop proving the right conditions.)
-Too short of a reload (Even if the first shot misses, its pretty unlikley for you to kill them the second time around if they run away from you and dodge you like most pussy m79ers do, so the reload needs to be longer so we actually have a fair chance at killing them)
-Hit radius is huge (Just because its short ranged and has an arch doesnt make it a challenging weapon to learn. The splash damage from an m79 is almost enough to take you out by itself. the fact that it pushs you is even more annoying. The people saying the arch and short range is an excuse for why its not overpowered is a lie because all the m79er has to do is just RUN at you and keep going after they blow you up. Then its a mere 2 seconds until they can shoot again.)

Dont call our comments stupid when the ones you claim make it easy on PAPER, not gameplay. There are so many factors, previous health, grenades, where you are on the map, how high/low you are, what gun you have, how much ammo and nades you have left, if the m79er is charging at you, if the m79er is reloading. Overall the m79 has the advantage on almost ALL of those listed above.



I agree, but m79 isn't the only gun that can kill you in a period of two m79 shots, even with the reload time being too fast; and it's not like m79 users are the only ones who dodge/run from a person shooting at him/her.
Because there are so many factors to the effectiveness of m79 (as there are for any weapon), it makes it hard to make generalizations about what would give an m79 user an advantage. Sure, m79 has advantages in almost all of the situations listed above, but I am going to go out and say there are situations where the m79 is at a disadvantage.
The short range as a disadvantage shouldn't be disregarded. Relating it to the mp5 and spas the further you are the less vulnerable you are. Mp5 and spas users tend to run towards you if you are too far away, too. Why? gives them an advantage, whatever.
Its not so much that keeping a distance and using a ruger/ak/whatever will kill them instantly, but it will make it easier.

It is annoying but what the are you guys gonna do about it? send out a petition?

 Quote:*Neither does an AK user, a Ruger user, or any other gun user, proving the right conditions. I don't understand this argument. I can circle-strafe an opponent with my AK and not have to stop. How is that different?

Um, no. Every other gun has to fallback at least some point. The m79 you rarley have to think about pulling back to aim.

 Quote:...hit them with a nade perhaps?

Another one of those "yeah its that easy" comments

 Quote:2/What gun you have is important. Autos can eat M79s alive. Spraying them down isn't that difficult.

Yeah, autos that stay and defend the entire time when an m79er rushs at them so they just run back. You cant advance at an m79er and expect an easy victory. Like I said before, its difficult to 'spray them down' when they just run away if they miss their shot.

 Quote:If the M79 user is reloading is obviously important. If he's reloading he's defenseless. Certainly with your experience you know that the 2 seconds you have while they are reloading are ample time to kill them.

its easier to make MISTAKES in soldat than it is to make achievements. You seem to have this idea reversed.

And if you say "well then thats obviously your fault" Well then obviously the entire soldat population is at fault because mistakes come natural with a game like this. In turn, that reverses the fault on the soldat population and pushs the blame on the M79 for having such a goddamn short reload.

 Quote:4/Charging. This is annoying but it can be countered...you can prone and dodge their shot, backflip if you're on the ground, throw a nade to blow up their M79 shell, et cetera, it's not impossible to beat the charge.

Prone and dodge? You mean, worming like a little b-tch in mid air? I wouldnt degrade myself that low. Backflip? Sure that would work if they miss or if they didnt have the split second advantage, but lest you forget, soldat is too fast paced to have a reaction time that is quick enough to beat a hit & run m79. Now listen, you have me confused with me saying I want the 1 hit kill factor gone or something. The reason the m79 is the m79 is because its a 1 hit kill and because its a hit and run. The reason why its annoying is because the reload is so short, mixed with the natural mistakes of soldat makes m79 superior because of the reload.

 Quote:1/The high point is key. If you're higher than them, you have the advantage, especially if you keep your distance...it's not that hard to understand. In smaller maps obviously this is difficult, but in open maps you can easily gun down an M79 user from long range. Being above them simply kills them more quickly.

True but the m79 kills you at ANY angle, not just from high or low.


Once again I reiterate, to fix the m79 wouldnt take much at all, just a simple reload time change. Add about 1-2 seconds onto the reload and m79 is fixed!

Well I could waste forever arguing with you, but I guess we can just..."agree to disagree," much as I hate the cliche. I still think the M79 has its place, just as any other gun does.

Vote

Okay guys, click below to vote on your opinion of the M79.

[URL]

I find it difficult to take out and M79er while its reloading after a miss. Especially when its nading you and you have a height disadvantage.
The only time I'm annoyed by it is when almost everyone in the server is using it. I agree with merely changing the reload time.

I disagree, its very easy to master, barely requires any skill at all... as I said in an earlier topic; M79 is a shoot and forget gun, simply shoot-and-forget it took no skill

M79 Sux 8===========

I have notice that the m79 rounds are 3 times bigger than it appears to be. When i dodged a m79 shot it somehow blows up beside me killing me as if it was a direct hit. So fixing this problem might result in noobs always missing, which we all could live with.

Oh yes...this would make those "noobs" always miss, and make your precious selves so safe.

Pfft..

 Quote:Originally posted by The GeologistOh yes...this would make those "noobs" always miss, and make your precious selves so safe.

Pfft..

Oh, sorry, thought you were done "talking in circles"

I am. Notice how I wasn't talking to you. Just find it funny how people love to exhaggerate, how only noobs can manage to kill them, but wait, this gun takes skill. So please, run and play.

I love the M79 and i think it takes skill. The reason people think its noobish is because of its short range power. but long range shots take sooo much skill cause its like shooting a 1 inch exploding ball as far as you can. SO thats what i think about that [CENSORED]ing noob is [CENSORED]ing saying about the mother[CENSORED]in bad ass M79 :)

grrrr

Poll Results
As of February 3

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Maybe more people would have voted if your answer for yes wasn't so extreme.

Everyone who voted for the second option uses m79.

IMO, i dont really mind the odd m79-er here and there, its when everyone starts using it that it really starts to annoy me, it just takes the fun out of shooting other players.

I mean, most of the weapons are pretty well balanced, right? all of them have different strengths and weaknesses, but the m79 is just totally different. It has the power of a barret, and quite and damn fast reload time ( some would argue ). Personally, i think it should be taken out, and replaced with something like an RPG-7, requiring the player to be on the ground to fire.

Poll results as of February 12th.

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if you add 1 second to the reload...u better as hell make sure that EVERY SHOT REGISTERS! If you think u were whining before wait until you see how many shots don't register...

i get anywhere between 1-4 non-registers per 10 minutes cw. that's pretty majour when u think of how many cap opportunities that is...Oh, and try attacking a person with an M79, when the opposition is defending with an Auto...it's all about situation people, so if u weaken it any more a person will have NOOOOOOOOO chance going in with an m79 on an auto...get real ffs.

M79 is balanced, end of story, if it wasn't MM would rebalance it, or whoever does the balancing

OMG DAT WEAPON KILLED ME!!!! NERF IT !!!1!1

How many times have we seen theads like this? 100? 100+? Who knows, they pop up all the time when someone gets killed by a lucky major.

I don't like the default m79, I think it reloads too fast and shoots too slow (bullet speed) but it shouldn't be nerfed, there really aren't any balancing problems with it.

And no, I don't use the m79 myself, never with the default settings and just once in a while in my own mod (soon to be released).

[caps] i so badly h8 m79 so badly!! i love the creator of the 'no m79' server.... the m79 is a n00b no skill one shot direct kill weapon that doesnt deserve to be in the game...

Yeah, ive played many years, and always the M79 is the most annoying weapon, after barret (1.31 barret is good now).

You can make your own weapon mod, but of course you dont play only in your own server with many reasons (no players, slow, crap, bad, sucky), so we need to change it permanently in soldat, because most of servers dont use weapon mods.

I agree, M79 is overpowered, and at least loading time should be 2 times longer. And maybe range and damage a bit boosted.

Slow down bullet.
or
Make reload time longer.
or
Everything is g00d as it is now.

Reload time increase just make them run like cowards while it reloads, it serves no purpose and still makes the m79 a same stat weapon.

Frankly, I feel there are some minor technicalities with it, maybe more bink, but all in all it's just the amount of people who use it that makes it seem really bad. I can relate to how m79 users feel when the stats were cut down on my (old weapon)HK MP5 rather drastically because of over-reaction, and now it is the least dominant auto in my opinion amongst skilled players.

If you think the m79 is really that bad, try using a long range weapon like the ruger and just pick them off from afar.

The only thing I dont like about the m79 is when some guy meets you in a tunnel, fires, blows the [CENSORED] out of you, but the shooter is barely harmed at all.

And tRaOs, the HK MP5 doest suck too bad, the MASSIVE fire spread if damn annoying but use it enough and its fine.

Most of you who voted the "m79 suck guts and noobish is prob noobs. Pros can handle a m79 with any gun well unlikely if they have minigun, but m79 isn't that good if u know what ur doing and how to handle a m79ner. Its only [CENSORED] for beginners and noobtards

 Quote:Originally posted by EzStEvIe2k2Most of you who voted the "m79 suck guts and noobish is prob noobs. Pros can handle a m79 with any gun well unlikely if they have minigun, but m79 isn't that good if u know what ur doing and how to handle a m79ner. Its only [CENSORED] for beginners and noobtards

Well said. Thats the whole point of this thread.

I agree with mike, even though i voted that i dony care, when so many people use it, it makes me mad. I use ruger, shotgun and DEs(Desert Eagles), and rarely a barret. THen soemone just blows me up, and thinks they are all so good. They are also normally noobs, and dont know the meaning of skill. Just for fun, in some servers, ill own a dude with an M79, throw away my knife at soemone, and pick up the noob gun. People get pissed at me when i act like a noob.

Selection
Results as of March 21 06

--Choice-------------------------------------------Percent----Total Votes
I hate its guts. Its overpowered and noobish.........65%........30
M79 is cool, and it's balanced.......................22%........10
I love the M79 and I think it's used by the pros......4%.........2
I really don't care...................................9%.........4

46 votes total

I think the only real problem with the m79 is the sheer amount splash damage, and the speed at which the projectile shoots. (If these were slightly smaller, and reload time less, more skill would come into play instead of single-shot whoring.) Also, make the "size" of the bullet bigger, to prevent lame lag misses (I hate them!). However, the m79 is not a cheap weapon, it is a skilled weapon... I love how you have to plan your trajectory. I've since moved on to the Minigun, but I love them both, because they're DIFFERENT from other weapons. Not like Barrett or Ruger, where once you've mastered being able to point and click, you become a one-man army of teh doomzoorz.

Speaking of which, I want to see more weapons in the game which are different. For instance, smoke grenades + a bigger ranged chainsaw would enable you to blind people, and then rush in and lay waste. I like seeing new kinds of gameplay within a game, and too many weapons in Soldat are simply "guns what you click with", ya know?