Well as many of you know I've put together a mapping contest that should be somewhere near flaw free and very quick and easy.

For those that haven't heard, I made a script on the SML webpage for mapping contests instead of having them forum based.

http://sml.u13.net?p=contest

Read up on the rules and everything else at that page.



Mapping Contest #1

Start Date: 01-25-2006
End Date: 02-08-2006

Theme: Desert
Description: Well to kick off the first contest, let us see how creative you can get. You will have 2 weeks to create a desert deathmatch of any size. Since there are not too many desert sceneries, let us see how creative you can get by either making up for it with something else, or making some.



The judges for this compeition will be:

Looks:
The Geologist
Boxo
Papasurf

Gameplay:
Grand_Diablo
Demonic
VijchtiDoodah




To submit a map to the contest, go to http://sml.u13.net?p=mapupload and make sure to check 'submit for mapping contest #1'. If you forget you can update the map by going to the update map page. Be warned however, once you submit a map to the contest you cannot update until the contest has ended. Hopefully this contest will have good results :).



Benefits/Prizes:

Since the contest is in its early stages, I'm not totally sure what we can do yet. However I have requested a server to cycle the mapping contest winners. I will also build something to have a full feature for the map that wins on the front of sml homepage. Hopefully this will increase your map popularity. And you never know perhaps I can talk to michal about getting the maps into the default game if this contest has enough submissions.

Please keep in mind this is also a good tool for new mappers to get input on their maps, however please be reasonable, if your map is not a valid submission it will get removed from the contest.

*hugs Soulsnipa and stickies*

You're my favourite workaholic.

Everyone, get mapping, now!

can I be in the contest?

What do you think? Everyone can submit maps, it's a public contest, otherwise it wouldn't get this much publicity.

Can judges submit maps?

Yes, everyone :) We can't rate our own maps though. Nuts.

:D

EDIT: is there a limit of how many maps we can submit(sorry, didn't read the first post)

I don't think it's a good idea having the current judges also as submitters, since there would be one less rating for them (because they wouldn't judge their own map). Anyway, i haven't seen Soulsnipa answer to this matter, even when i mentioned it twice in the other thread :P

I'll tell Rabidhamster to get off his lazy Halo ass and start mapping again. Maybe I'll submit one too.

OutofOrder, the best option would be to allow a substitute judge take that mapper's place just for that map.

What about the list of potential judges named beneath the official ones? Let one of them step up, such as Cookie, in times when judge can't vote on their own map. Hmm?

Yeah, that's what I had in mind.

Edit: You know what? The names of the people who submit maps should be hidden until the contest is over, just to prevent any biases and, perhaps, add a bit of intrigue.

Ooohh...me likey. Anyone else? I think that would really help to make things interesting and fair.

keep the suggestions coming...i can do whatever you need. Also I didnt really think it was an issue having 5 judges rather than 6, what do you guys think? I originally planned to have 5 but then i thought about a sub and just made it 6. If you think it would be fair to have a substitute just let me know and i can see what i can do.

Alright, here's how I see things working: Each entrant's name is hidden from everyone (judges and community alike) for the aforementioned reasons. In addition, all votes should be hidden to keep people from changing their opinion based on the current score. We all vote, everything is hunky-dory, and the names and votes become visible once the contest is over.

Us judges then present the top three to the forums (preferably in the general section, just to let people know about it). We could, perhaps, write a bit about what we thought of them or, at least, what we thought of just the winner -- I don't know how much you guys are willing to write.

I'd like some sense of how you guys feel about this. If you don't want to voice your opinion, that's good, great, I'll become a dictator to get things working smoothly.


Soulsnipa, it would be great if you set the contest separate from the rest of SML. I got on there and had a hard enough time figuring out what was what. You may also want to add an ip logger that prevents people from voting for their own map a bunch of times.

quote:Originally posted by VijchtidoodahAlright, here's how I see things working: Each entrant's name is hidden from everyone (judges and community alike) for the aforementioned reasons. In addition, all votes should be hidden to keep people from changing their opinion based on the current score. We all vote, everything is hunky-dory, and the names and votes become visible once the contest is over.

Us judges then present the top three to the forums (preferably in the general section, just to let people know about it). We could, perhaps, write a bit about what we thought of them or, at least, what we thought of just the winner -- I don't know how much you guys are willing to write.

I'd like some sense of how you guys feel about this. If you don't want to voice your opinion, that's good, great, I'll become a dictator to get things working smoothly.


Soulsnipa, it would be great if you set the contest separate from the rest of SML. I got on there and had a hard enough time figuring out what was what. You may also want to add an ip logger that prevents people from voting for their own map a bunch of times.



1) I was afraid that comment about SML was going to come up. Personally, it would take too much time to build another map uploader because I dont really have time to start up a whole new webpage. I just did this so you guys would have something nice and easy. Even these new suggestions I should be able to do however I will need to find time for them.

Just let me know once your done babbling what exactly you want me to do with the contest, however I dont see it being moved away from the SML webpage, it would just take way too much time.


2) I have bunch of different limits on the SML page which prevents people from voting on their own map several times. From updating their map during the contest to not being able to submit it if its not the same maptype. If you have any further suggestions let me know. I should be able to hide the scores from everyone if thats what you need. Should it be hidden from the judges as well?

quote:Originally posted by Soulsnipa
1) I was afraid that comment about SML was going to come up. Personally, it would take too much time to build another map uploader because I dont really have time to start up a whole new webpage. I just did this so you guys would have something nice and easy. Even these new suggestions I should be able to do however I will need to find time for them.

Alright, but I was just asking for a quick fix. Ie, either copy the code for the uploader but update the url's so we can have a completely seperate page...or just share the uploader, but look seperate (a contest site that has the same upload page as the original, that still goes to the original uploader, but with "Submit for Mapping Contest #n" set as default).

I don't know how difficult that would be...it seems like it would just be a tad time-consuming but not much else.

quote:Should it be hidden from the judges as well?


Just as I said...

The way I have it now for the update and all that allows for easy removal and updating of maps. The judges can immediately remove a map from the contest by updating and unchecking the box. I will make a few changes and see if I can get that done sometime soon, however I'm not sure when exactly that will get done. My free time is nearing an end.


Alright on the contest page I did it quickly to hide the names and ratings. If you have any complaints or see any bugs after this first round let me know. I need to see some maps submitted before i make further changes really.

I made it so whenever u get finished rating a map you will see overall ratings for your particular rating.

Btw Cookies and ips are both tracked for extra security. Also usernames are tracked when you are logged in. So you have to get past a few things to vote twice. I mean i made this to aid you guys, I dont want to be spoonfeeding you either however. A lot of this stuff just use common sense, especially the judges shouldnt ever be biased.

How would maps be submitted?

quote:Originally posted by SoulSnipa:To submit a map to the contest, go to http://sml.u13.net?p=mapupload and make sure to check 'submit for mapping contest #1'. If you forget you can update the map by going to the update map page. Be warned however, once you submit a map to the contest you cannot update until the contest has ended. Hopefully this contest will have good results :).

quote:Originally posted by VijchtidoodahAlright, here's how I see things working: Each entrant's name is hidden from everyone (judges and community alike) for the aforementioned reasons. In addition, all votes should be hidden to keep people from changing their opinion based on the current score. We all vote, everything is hunky-dory, and the names and votes become visible once the contest is over.

Us judges then present the top three to the forums (preferably in the general section, just to let people know about it). We could, perhaps, write a bit about what we thought of them or, at least, what we thought of just the winner -- I don't know how much you guys are willing to write.

Then the judges aren't judging, they become plain map-reviewers :P
I like the anonymous map submission idea, but i still prefer having a stated number of judges to judge their own parts. And if a judge wants to submit a map... well, he shouldn't be able to. They should sacrifice a bit there. Just because of the fact that not all of the volunteering judges take part in a single contest, they will always be able to submit a map in the next one. :)
And a substitute judge for a map wouldn't be right because there is the chance that all the possible substitutes also submit maps, therefore there's a chance of being biased. (I'm not mistrusting the judges, i'm mistrusting the system)

edit:
So my points are:
- Anonymous map submission indeed.
- Restrict current judges from submitting.

I think judges should be able to submit their maps, but shouldn't be allowed to rate their own. Since the system calculates an avarage of the judges votes and adds it up to the public votes, the system wouldn't be rigged at all. And because of anonymity, people wouldn't know whetever the map is made by a judge or not.

Bingo.

 Quote:Originally posted by DeMonIcSince the system calculates an avarage of the judges votes and adds it up to the public votes, the system wouldn't be rigged at all.

That's not true. There would be one less judge vote to balance the average, therefore substracting relative veracity to the result. That makes 5 judges voting this map. What if a 6th judge would have taken or added a lot of difference to the map's final score?
Even more important, what if the difference brought from the missing 6th judge defined a 1st place for a map that would have been 2nd (or the other way around)?
If a judge really wanted to take place in the contest, he could always ask another volunteer (that isn't willing to take place in the contest) to replace him in the whole judging.
I'm not trying to be a smartass here, just trying to notice something i see not as fair as it can be.

Edit:
Ooooh, i just realize something. I thought there were more volunteers than actual judges for each competition. For my suggestion to take place, there should be more volunteers available than judges. I thought SS had recruited more than 6 people to be possible judges . :P
Well, if you agree on anything i've posted, please try to do something about it (like recruiting more possible judges).

Edit2: I see why i thought wrong first: SS said in his first post "These are the judges for this competition", and i ass-umed there could have been others. -_-

You have to remmeber im not all that great at php and you are suggesting a lot of crazy [CENSORED]. Plus it is just a mapping contest, have fun over it. You havent even tested it to see how it works yet.

What if judge a and judge b have totally have different opinions on maps. If judge b replaces judge a would it be any better than if he didnt vote at all. At least with him not voting at all...the voting has less of a chance of being skewed.

I think you misunderstood my suggestion.
If a judge wants to submit a map (and therefore drop from judging), he wouldn't be replaced for a single map, but for the entire contest.
Following your example, if judge b has different opinion, he will have different opinions for every map. The fact that he will consistent on every map rating brings balance and equality to his whole judging task. It doesn't really matter, have in mind all judges are considered qualified to be such :)
In that case, you woulnd't have to code anything complex, only judge replacing (unless you also mean coding anonymous submissions, which i understand it's heavier stuff).
It's only a suggestion. Have you found anything reasonable on this?

Well that is silly I believe because then 6 people cant submit a map to the contest?! There arent enough people as it is man. Perhaps if the popularity got to a high point we could make it the top 6 would get to judge the next set of maps, however right now what if we only have 8 people who want to submit maps. Most of the people who would submit to this contest are the judges since they are experienced mappers and been around the community for years. Taking them away would just make the contest less intense and less competitive. If you want to replace these 6 judges with 6 new people, and what if the new poeple want to map, then these 6 newer new people will need to pass it on and no one will judge a map...

the thing about changes judges is that I would need to build a whole new thing to have a list of whos currently a judge. I would also need to build a list of all users to make judges. Wouldnt be hard, but then again its time consuming. Otherwise I would have to access the mysql tables and change the database however whos going to do that when im not around. I dont want to be responsible for all of it.

One solution would be to give somone access to the mysql tables, but it contains everything on the sml site. Is there really somone i can trust with that kind of information. All that hard work and it could be gone in a matter of seconds.

Allrighty then!
Understood, without those judges the contest would decay.
Does this mean you will make map submission anonymous? And what will you do about the final score of a map submitted by a judge?

If somone would submit a map to the contest they would see everything is hidden. Author name and ratings. Only when you try to submit a rating will you see updated ratings for whatever topic you are looking at. I still have to work out a few kinks...but for now most of the direct information is blocked and hidden until after the contest date has ended.

I like the new quote box :D

I strongly support this discussion here, especially the anonymous map submissions. I think this is makes the contest more objective and unbiased, a map will, for the most part, be judged on only what is shown, not the reputation of one who made it.

I also think that overviews and screenshots should NOT be submitted with maps, so people who vote should be forced to download the map and actually play it, taking into account not only aesthetics but also gameplay. Of course, they could simply open up the map in a map-making program, but...well...vagina.

Problem is, papasurf31, that it takes at least a few hours of intensive playing ( good server / good players ) to say whether a map has a good gameplay, is well balanced, etc...

Best is, in my opinion, to run a server with all selected maps after the submit-period is closed, so people are able to play on it while the voting process is still going on, and have that way a more well considered vote.

-EDIT-

Oh, wait, i thought the 'judges' would only select the better maps, and everyone was able to vote for those 'better' maps ( would be a way better system as it is now, in my opinion ). So, nevermind my idea about the server...

Sorry unless somone is willing to help code the site im not willing to do two stages of voting =/

 Quote:Originally posted by PulpOh, wait, i thought the 'judges' would only select the better maps, and everyone was able to vote for those 'better' maps ( would be a way better system as it is now, in my opinion ). So, nevermind my idea about the server...


Whoa...don't get so pessimistic just yet. I love that idea. It's difficult to assess gameplay without actually playing against people, we really should have a server running that hosts all the custom maps in a contest.

If people really don't like a map, we can just take it out.

Also, this gives a chance to get the map shuffled around a bit so that people are more likely to play it and put it on their own servers if people like it. It's a win-win situation.

So...who's willing to host :)

There are various dedicated servers that most time of the day are idling without having players getting into them. Most of them have contact info when you go inside. Someone could try to do some "public relations" task and negotiate with one of those hosters to be the official contest map hoster anytime there is a contest going on.
Also, a thread at "Server talk" (not sure which forum would be better) asking for a host may help.

or if people donate to flieslikeabrick now im sure he would help us out later :)