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The art of Tactics
Soldat Forums - Soldat Talk - General Discussions
dragontamer
February 4, 2006, 5:38 am
Okay, I haven't read the art of war, and I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I just wanna raise the tactical proficiency of the average user.

Most good players seem to understand these without giving names to these tactics. This is more aimed at the novice of the game, with maybe a week or so worth of experiance. (So as "obvious" as this advice is, I personally haven't been able to think in terms of these for a while)

Why tactics?
They give a winning edge over equally skilled players.

Skill will always beat tactics. An unskilled player using tactics will lose to a highly-skilled player using no tactics. But in high tier games with players having nearly equal skills, tactics play a crutial role.

===== No ****ing durh n00b =====
Please master these concepts before continuing. If you aren't a newbie, just skip this section.

1. Reload
It is a disadvantage to be attacked while you are reloading. Either use a faster reloading weapon (HK or scom) or retreat.

Reload when you predict the enemy is not comming, and sometimes, it is better to just shoot your bullets randomly for the auto reload than it is to push the "r" button.

And the shotgun doesn't suffer the reaload disadvantage as much as other guns.

2. Guns have advantages/disadvantages. Exploit them.
In fact, this tactics sheet is aiming to anylyse these advantages/disadvantages more completly.

3. Use secondary weapon to complement your primary
Don't be a n00b and go Law/Beret. Beret and Law cover the same purpose, and after you fire Law, it is as if you only got the Beret.

Law complements "general purpose" weapons like Deagles. SCom complements beret better. Note: if you can predict what weapon you will pickup when you kill the enemy, this rule doesn't apply to you. For example, if you know your enemy is constantly using Deagles, use the law, kill them, drop the law and steal his Deagles.

4. Pick-up enemy weapons to your advantage.
Just fired a law? Drop it and pick up the machine gun your enemy just dropped. Machine gun + beret/ruger == dangerous combination.

5. How to use a machine gun
I find it strange that few people know how to use a machine gun properly.

Machine guns get more inaccurate the longer you hold down the button. So the solution is simple:

Hold the button down for half-a-second, let go, and then shoot again. Basically, only shoot 5 or 6 bullets at a time.

This keeps the gun accurate, but doesn't sacrifice damage.

In fact, I can click faster than the minime's rate of fire. So use the minime like a scom and you will always have 100% accurate bullets.

(It isn't practical to use this on the Minigun on the other hand, due to its startup time)

===== Fundamentals =====
Using these few rules, you can generalize all the other rules. You really only need to know these elemental building blocks to be more tactical than the average soldat player. (though the average soldat forum user seems to be much more smart about this)

1. Anatomy of the player
There are 3 places you can get shot.

Head Shot
Torso
Legs

Head shot does the most damage, legs do not. The gun that this effects the most is the ruger. Head shot + anything == 2 hit kill. Legs + torso == 3 shot kill.

2. Damage calculation
I dunno the exact formula, but it is quite obvious that a faster bullet increases your damage.

This is most noticable with the knife. A slow moving knife hurts you only 3/4 of the way, while a fast knife (from someone running at you for instance) always kills you should it hit.

Similarly, shotguns bullets at their "peak" do nearly no damage. This plays an important factor in the height advantage.

3. Land/Terrain
Use the land and Terrain to your advantage. Reloading? Hide in a ditch while the enemy wastes bullets on you.

Little "shields" exist all around maps. They allow you to fire on the enemy while you are nearly invinsable from one direction.

[IMAGE]
My favorite shield spot on the Kampf map. Note how little of the body is exposed, while the "raised ruger" position allows me to fire nearly anywhere I want to.

It is nearly impossible for even a beret sniper to shoot me, I am (count them yourself) exposed by 3 pixels (for comparison, a running opponent has 27 pixels, and a prone opponent is 7 pixels tall)

To break someone in cover, use explosive weapons to make them "jump" out, and then shoot them while they are in the air. It is rare for someone to die from an explosion because they never take a direct hit while under cover.

Also, flanking them works out very well. While nearly invunerable from the side, if you ever get a height advantage on me in that position, I am sure to die.

And btw, be careful of "shields" and explosive weapons. I am extremely sick of noobs who use the law like this:
[IMAGE]

Please please please! Stop shooting explosive weapons on a wall; especially if you are next to the wall. There is *always* someone dumb enough to do this over and over and over again in the same game :-(

Thanks.

4. Run, crouch, prone

These are the 3 avaliable positions for you, with extremly balanced tradeoffs.

Run gives you maximum mobility and a minimum blind spot. However, this position has minimum accuracy and minimum cover. Additionally, you cannot fire the law from this position. Technically, this gives you maximum cover from opponents below your feet.

Prone gives you maximum accuracy and large amount of cover. However, it gives you a massive blind spot and minimum mobility. Berets can see "beyond the screen" in this position. This has the most cover from opponents on a horizontal to you.


Crouch gives you a bit of mobility, a bit more accuracy, and a bit of cover, and very small blind spot. Strangly enough, this position isn't used often alone. However, crouch gives a massive advantage when using a terrain shield, allowing you to use the "raised weapon" mode that so few soldat players take advantage of. Berets can see "beyond the screen" in this position. Technically, this has the most cover of the 3 positions against opponenets who are at a diagonal against you.

Prone position has other advantages as well. Machine guns get extremely accurate when you are in the prone position. In fact, you may not have to do the "click" thing while in prone.

Mind you, use the right position for the right time. DEagles recieve no accuracy bonus from croutch or prone position, so you are sacrificing mobility for almost nothing. Use the correct position for your weapon.

======== Basic Tactics ========

1. Circles
In combat, you have to know your circle. As usual, there are weak or blind spots, and there is the designated range. Berets have a massive blind spot, while they can see a whole screen ahead, they cannot see themself. Shotguns have nearly no blind spot, but very little range.

It is to your advantage to always stay in the blind-spot of your enemy, while keeping the enemy withing your strong spot.

All guns have a blind spot when you are right on top of the enemy. Instead of shooting, the gun will "punch", doing much less damage. These blind spots can be exploited by the chainsaw or the

2. Height advantage
As Obi-Wan said to Anikin, "It's over, Anakin! I have the high ground!", the height advantage is a very important basic tactic, not only in sword combat, but in Soldat.

The easiest way to see how height advantage is to use the shotgun. No other weapon displays height advantage so much.

The height advantage gives several basic advantages. First, by being above the opponent, the opponent is more likely to shoot your legs, and you are more likely to shoot the head. Therefore, you will score more torso/head shots, while the enemy will score more leg shots.

The most obvious difference in height is when you are directly above the enemy, where it is impossible for the enemy to score a head shot, while it is impossible for you to score anything but a head shot.

[IMAGE]

As shown in the (clearly photoshoped) image, the legs serve as a "sheild" with the height advantage.

The second basic advantage offered by the height advantage is gravity. Gravity makes your bullets go faster. Faster bullets == more damage when bullet is in contact. On the other hand, bullets from the enemy will be slower by the time they reach you, or may not even get close to you, as shown in this other photoshoped image

[IMAGE]

Basically, the m79 user will clearly *never* hit the shotgun user, no matter how hard he tries. The m79 just doesn't get shot that high. The shotgun user on the other hand, will constantly score extra-damage head shots from faster bullets, and will more than likely score a one-hit kill. (shotgun to the head usually results in death, let alone the accelerated bullet.)

Finally, because bullets are flying faster with height, you have a larger "circle" than the foe, and a much smaller blind spot as the foe is slow should he want to catch up to your height. To capture the height advantage requires you to use the slow jetpack; enough time to gain the health advantage.

To recapture the high ground, use fast bullets such as beret, ruger, styer or law. These guns do not suffer the "slowing down" effect as much because their bullets go much faster than the average gun.

3. Choke Points and Paths
Knowing the grounds you fight on is *excessivly* important. Choke points are one of those important places you must learn to defend. A Choke Point is where you can predict the enemy will come at you.

Nubbia is littered with choke points.

[IMAGE]

Choke points are an advantage cause you just poing your gun in the general direction, and you end up getting a serial kill. Most maps have more than one path fortunatly, so opponents can simply avoid you by avoiding the choke point your are defending.

Just know, if there are 2 choke points, usually about half the enemies will be trying to go through it. "Capture" the choke points, delay for backup. Whatever you do, hold on to this advantage as long as you can.

Machine guns hold choke points well, because of the high amount of bullets which force enemies back as you shoot.

As for those who lose control of choke points: you cannot get out of your base until you recapture the choke point. I suggest using long range shots to out-snipe the foe. (ruger, law or beret are extremly useful)

========== Team Tactics ==========

1. Waves
This is one difference between n00bs and seasoned players. Seasoned players tend to attack in waves; while n00bs don't seem to realize the importance of a wave.

A "Wave" is perhaps the most basic and simple way to organize your team. I am sure you've heard of your team mates say "travel in pairs", or whatnot?

Lets put it this way, M79 user vs 2 enemies. If the enemies attack one at a time, M79 user would have reloaded by the time the 2nd enemy comes, and could easily wipe both of them out.

On the other hand, if you go in waves, the M79 user will be reloading while the 2nd person is fireing on him.

Take advantage of enemy reloads. Go in waves.

2. Flanks

Flanking in this 2d game? Believe it or not, it works.

[IMAGE]
Example of flank on the Blue Base in KampF

Flanking has a huge number of advantages. Perhaps the most obvious is that it is nearly impossible to do a double-kill in one shot.

Second, while an enemy may be hard to kill from one angle, it may be easy to kill from another angle. Take the prone position: if I come straight at you while you are prone, I have a disadvantage. On the other hand, if I come from above you, the prone position has a disadvantage compared to straight-up running.

3. "Cover Fire" and "Fire and Motion"
This tactic is perhaps the most used in real life but most under-used in SolDat. Then again, it requires above-average team coordination.

It really is quite simple.

Cover Fire is simply using bullets defensivly.

Best example of a Cover Fire:
[IMAGE]

If you are dumb enough to actually enter the rain of death from the mini-gun, you will be slaughtered.

This forces the enemey to hide from the machine gun bullets.

Tell me, if you were blue what is the best thing to do?

Wait for red to stop shooting the minigun, then charge. Either that, or use the top-path in KampF. Maybe get a ruger/beret and try to snipe the minigunner out.

But whatever the situation, it is obvious what you should *not* do, and that is charge into the minigun.

This is how you "pin down" the enemy. This forces the enemy to stay still for a few seconds while you discharge your minigun, and that is more than enough time for your other allies to make an entrance.

=====================================

Aighty. Thats my advice for the day :-)

Ok
February 4, 2006, 5:37 pm
Was about to write this big explaination oh what would happen if a mirical would occure and you would look just 1 line above General Discussions before posting and investing so much time into this.

But I won't.
Just a few notes:
1- Someone with a week's expirience barely manage to get into the forums not to mention go directly to this specific thread and read it...

2- Meet this: http://www.soldatforums.com/forum.asp?forum_id=94

3- I read some of your advices, I'm sorry to say , but some of what I managed to read is wrong.

Nevertheless, lots of effort was put into this, and I respect that, its also very well put and I can see you have a good tactical mind that just need some tuning to the Soldat clan war mentality.
Check the guide forum, read its purpose. we can use someone like u.

DragonSlayer
February 4, 2006, 5:50 pm
Interesting read. Good basic tactics for new players.

[IMAGE]
don't encourage spraying. :(

dragontamer
February 4, 2006, 6:46 pm
 Quote:Originally posted by OkWas about to write this big explaination oh what would happen if a mirical would occure and you would look just 1 line above General Discussions before posting and investing so much time into this.

But I won't.

Yeah, that'd make me feel stupid. Don't worry, I think moderators can move threads...

Additionally, I thought that forum was more of "your forum" and not really a place for me to post my stuff. And this place would you know, generate more discussion and all.

 Quote:Just a few notes:
1- Someone with a week's expirience barely manage to get into the forums not to mention go directly to this specific thread and read it...

True dat...

 Quote:2- Meet this: http://www.soldatforums.com/forum.asp?forum_id=94

Cool. Erm, I don't like copyrighting my work ever: so really, you can copy/paste what you want from this post as you like if you wanna. (yes, everything I wrote is in Public domain. Free yourself from copyright! )

As for your wiki idea: I much prefer trying the old fashion way. Newcommers to wikis don't seem to understand that most of the time, if you don't write it, no one else will, unless of course you have a massive community of wiki writers.

But massive communities of wiki writers don't come instantly: they are built up slowly. Basic example is wikipedia vs wikibooks. Wikipedia exploded because lots of people read it, wikibooks on the other hand is so much less popular that it is stalling.

 Quote:3- I read some of your advices, I'm sorry to say , but some of what I managed to read is wrong.

I'm in no clan: what can I say? There is only so much I know.

Most of my tactics work against the average player however, as they tend to be m79 n00bs who rush at you, miss you, and then wait to reload instead of pulling out a knife/scom and kill you while surprised.

Anything specific you can point out so I can edit out before newbies are mislead?

 Quote: Nevertheless, lots of effort was put into this, and I respect that, its also very well put and I can see you have a good tactical mind that just need some tuning to the Soldat clan war mentality.
Check the guide forum, read its purpose. we can use someone like u.


Cool. I could write more if you wish :) Give some theories and stuff.

 Quote:Originally posted by DragonSlayer
don't encourage spraying. :(


Lol. It is a major tactic used however, used in quite a lot of games I've played.

And it isn't just "spraying", this is cover fire, and discussion of ways to get rid of cover fire. As said, sniping is a good way, and also hiding behind that "shield" terrain thingy helps a lot. Nades and M79 usually cover sprayers as well.

Ok
February 4, 2006, 7:03 pm
I support cover fire, which is a form of spraying as well, but not with a minigun that is barely controlable and also push your flah carrier back and reduce his speed thus allowing his chasers to catch up with him, AK, Minimi ever Styr and Spas are much more suitable for this task.
That's just an example, btw I can't move the thread to that forum. I'm a moderator not an admin.

I also would like to know why have you got the impresion that's "mine" I specified it quite well that its a project for the community with the help of the community , the whole point of that forum is for ppl posting their theoris and ideas, no other purpose for it what so ever.

I assume you haven't quite understood the idea, the wiki is just the online version.
The guide will also be inside your soldat game.. and ofcoruse any information not offered by someone else will be written by us (I'm not alone in that project)

Just one last note, what you wrote here belongs in several topics, not just one.
Tactics is something that is inside every game mode and every level of game play, just find your topic of choise and post in there following the rules specified in the sticky

Deleted User
February 4, 2006, 7:08 pm
well thanks for your time and effort into typing all that out, it could be really useful if added to the Soldat Guide

Swarmer
February 4, 2006, 7:09 pm
Cool.

Guides with pictures are always 10x better than without.

The guide looks fine to me, I don't see any misleading information.
@ok: I dont see why this is a waste of time. Just move the thread over to the Soldat Guide section. You should encourage more "general tactics" threads, because they are easier to write and if it is well-organized like this, it's more readable than some of the threads there.

And the Art of War doesn't really have much to contribute to Soldat... maybe a few things on terrain, but it is all pretty obvious things, like be in advantageous terrain. The book is better for RTSs and real war and economics.

Deleted User
February 4, 2006, 7:22 pm
to get rid of that particular cover fire, just go close to the edge (bust still out of range of the bullets) and throw a grenade that will bounce towards him, forcing him to move away and give up his bullet rain. then you charge him and fire at him, he will fire back but will probably not have enough bullets in his clip left from the cover fire, and will die.

then you go down the flag pit and he respawns and throw alot of grenades and shoot you and kill you and the end.

its the way of the kampf xD

Melba
February 4, 2006, 9:57 pm
I hate threads like these.

a-4-year-old
February 4, 2006, 10:49 pm
wow, i spent so much time reading things i already know so well.

being pawned is the best way to learn imo

Deleted User
February 4, 2006, 10:58 pm
Yet again we have another genius who knows to use all weapons. Theres no sarcasm in this, everyone soldat cant seem to get the fact that one gun, can not defeat every other gun in every situation.

Ok
February 4, 2006, 11:31 pm
No worries, this is one of the thing , the main misconceptions that the guide is aim to solve.

This, the fact that killing your enemie is NOT the best solution in all situations and many other misconeptions that in the past made the difference betwin a good soldat player and just a player that can aim.

Allas today the game is so easy that you see crawling Majors who barely walk but with such ease kill you with their m79 , or their oh so easy to use autos..


dragontamer
February 4, 2006, 11:39 pm
 Quote:Originally posted by OkNo worries, this is one of the thing , the main misconceptions that the guide is aim to solve.

This, the fact that killing your enemie is NOT the best solution in all situations and many other misconeptions that in the past made the difference betwin a good soldat player and just a player that can aim.

Allas today the game is so easy that you see crawling Majors who barely walk but with such ease kill you with their m79 , or their oh so easy to use autos..


I can't believe I forgot to address that!

Team Tactic #4: Delay (Specific to CTF games)

Delaying the enemy is *much* more suitable than killing them outright. In fact, killing the enemy only delays their actions for some 10 seconds (5 seconds to respawn, 5 to get back to where they used to be), and in fact, puts them in an advantage as they can switch their weapons to their fancy.

Of course, delaying 1 enemy unit is worthless; as to delay the enemy, you also stagnate yourself.

On the other hand, if you can delay a "wave" of enemys, say 2 or 3 people by lobbing grenades and using an auto at a choke point: you can delay *much* longer than 10 seconds. And with that said, every 1 second you delay, it is 2 seconds they lose. (one for each of the units you delay)

It is also much easier to predict an enemy's weapon set if they dont... die. If a shotgun user is sitting at the bottom of a map, he will probably not be able to hit you and he will always be using the shotgun.

Kill him, and he may come from another direction with a different gun and different strategy.

Raptor
February 5, 2006, 12:18 am
Wow! This is very helpful! Especially for players that just play to kill and get killed.

a-4-year-old
February 5, 2006, 12:36 am
wow to kill and get killed is the whole idea of the game, congradulations, you told us nothing.

Raptor
February 5, 2006, 12:41 am
I mean, playing strategically to get killed less. Of course you'll get killed unless you're hacking =/

Deleted User
February 5, 2006, 12:43 am
Strategy seems to be a little bit more for the R/S side, doesn't it?

dragontamer
February 5, 2006, 1:06 am
 Quote:Originally posted by Meep.Strategy seems to be a little bit more for the R/S side, doesn't it?


Yeah, but it makes a big enough difference in CTF games.

Even in deathmatches, the concepts of "blind spot", "high ground advantage" and so forth can be made.

ThaD
February 5, 2006, 9:51 am
There is no such thing like 'tactics' in Soldat, what you have described are just some basic tips, very useful for newbies though

Pero
February 5, 2006, 10:22 am
Yeah like ThaD said u cant use tactical moving and crouching behind boxes in cw's cause the style is fast..but nice tips for new players.

dragontamer
February 5, 2006, 4:06 pm
 Quote:Originally posted by PeroYeah like ThaD said u cant use tactical moving and crouching behind boxes in cw's cause the style is fast..but nice tips for new players.


A tactic is not necessarily hiding behind boxes, but a full out Blitzkreg is also a tactic (used by Hitler in WWII, yeah, but you gotta admit; it demolished France and works well in Soldat as well)

I'd define tactics as manuvering your character into a more advantagious position.

Strategy on the other hand... has no use in Soldat.

Da cHeeSeMaN
February 5, 2006, 5:56 pm
Nice read wrong section though. Keep up the good work should be stickied i think :P

Pero
February 5, 2006, 7:18 pm
 Quote:Originally posted by dragontamer Quote:Originally posted by PeroYeah like ThaD said u cant use tactical moving and crouching behind boxes in cw's cause the style is fast..but nice tips for new players.


A tactic is not necessarily hiding behind boxes, but a full out Blitzkreg is also a tactic (used by Hitler in WWII, yeah, but you gotta admit; it demolished France and works well in Soldat as well)

I'd define tactics as manuvering your character into a more advantagious position.

Strategy on the other hand... has no use in Soldat.

Yeah, theres just simple strategies in some situtaion like 1 defender 2 rushers...

Ok
February 5, 2006, 7:28 pm
Everything you posted here, belongs in the Soldat Guide.
This is why I don't like seeing posts like this here, because they belong in the Soldat guide.
Huge discussions 'causes do to the popularity of the Soldat Discussions, I sometimes think to myself, if ppl just bookmark a link directly to General Discussions rather than checking the forums in general.
And I wish admins and moderators here would do dedicate their time to directing ppl into the right forum, there is a forum for bug reports there is a forum for tactical suggestions, and so on.

There's much more to tactics than you guys are talking about in here, I suggest you start reading the guide, even though most of you think you're "pros" you have a lot to learn about Soldat espacialy if you say "There are no tactics for soldat".

dragontamer
February 5, 2006, 7:32 pm
 Quote:Originally posted by OkEverything you posted here, belongs in the Soldat Guide.


Meh, I'll remake it in that forum later, better than its current form :)

But not now, I'm a little busy with homework etc.