This is an issue which concerns me since a long time. When the enemy captures your flag and boosts away you mostly don't have a chance to get him, he'll be too far away too fast. This is especially problematic on bigger maps like B2b.
I don't have a problem with usual boosting, it just adds another aspect to the gameplay and you can mostly intercept boosters if you're careful. If not, it's a mapping issue which can be resolved by adjusting the map. But boosting with the flag is just an unfair tactic, as you don't need train or experience to execute it, but still get a great, undeserved advantage over your enemy.
So my proposition is that when you're carrying a flag, you (nearly?) can't boost anymore. For all these fans of unlogical pseudo-realism in a 2d-shooter, you could say it's the weight of the flag, making you unable to go any faster.
Boosting isn't a great problem in most matches, but if it's done, it can quickly change the result in an undeserved way.
So what do you think? If you think there should be a different solution, please post it here.
I don't get it...are you talking about m79/nade boosting? Or just using the jets? If it's only the latter then I'm afraid I can't agree with you there. However, if you're talking about m79/nade boosting, then perhaps an increase in power would go a ways to injuring/killing people who try to boost their way around. If that didn't keep people from boosting, it would make it much easier to kill them.
I dont get it... What is the problem? Should this game be so linear, that all you can do is just jump and run forward and shoot at your enemies, with a biggg luck you can capture the flag, and with bigger luck you can score?
This kind of a topic makes me think, that the creator of this idea must have lost some inportant match due to this, and now wants to prevent it from happening. If it is so "lame", what makes it lame?
I don't really understand the question, or your logic for that matter, you have got the same ability to boost as the efc.
But then, maybe you don't, maybe you haven't yet understood the basics of right-clicking in soldat.
Jump in the direction you want to go and right-click, try it out some time, you might enjoy the experience.
I like it. Since boosters tend to have low life.
I agree with Outcast, since when they boost they usually will go straight up to limit the health taken away or sideways which will take alot of health away..
Its not that hard to catch up to them and shoot them with an auto.
I guess nearly none of you understood the question?
I was talking about nade/m79-boosting, right. You don't lose much health when boosting with an M79. It's easy to boost so you lose a maximum of 1/10 health, and that's really not much. And no, you can't keep up then, that's what makes boosting so advantageous, undeservedly.
@Claw & Brillmongo
Thanks for your great smartness. There is a difference between "flying" and "boosting". If you don't know it, get to know it! Elsewise there's no need for you to vote here.
And you got to explain why it would make the game linear, since boosting with the flag is rather rare, but can change a match quickly, as I described. Certainly this doesn't change the overall gameplay in any way.
Can it be altered with the weapons.ini? if not, this can't be done until Michal begins work on the next version, and thats only if he wants to add this, and if he can.
It can't be changed, especially not if you want to implement my solution which will never happen. It's just like the selfdmg M79 has.
But this doesn't mean it's less important. As I said, boosting with the flag doesn't happen very often in clanwars, but if it does, it's simply an undeserved advantage. Like the flagbug, only that it isn't a bug.
How is it a undeserved advantage when there is clearly a tradeoff? I personally consider both nade boosting and m79 boosting tactical things which do require practice.
With a increased reload to m79 which will most likely happen next version, the tradeoff is even larger. The tradeoff is you m79 boost which gives you a distance buffer between you and the person your chasing, however it makes you more prone to being killed by someone who is coming back , and it makes you waste the bullet and wait 3 seconds to reload(more next version), it also damages you a little. I find myself m79 boosting sometimes, but alot of times I would rather use that bullet to kill the enemy because if I dont he would spray me and most likely kill me. This is a choice the user makes, seems pretty tactical to me. Same with nades.
In most of the cases there isn't any enemy on your way back. Mostly your enemies are spawning. They would still have a chance to get you, but since you boosted (for which you really don't need any train or experience) they don't have any chance to get you. Also you don't need another shot for killing enemies, as you are fast enough to pass by any enemy at first. When you've gotten slow enough so that enemies could have a chance to get you, you already reloaded the next shot, and it's very unlikely that the your 2 other teammembers slept in your base instead of going to kill the enemies.
It is a little harder with nades, but not really much. If you want to be good at nadejumping you got to train it a little, but that's it. The amount of health you lose is really nonrelevant, at least if you aren't a newbie who has never done it before.
I believe boosting in general should be nerfed a little.
I'm a happy nade-booster myself, but the price I pay is too little. I believe there should be a lot more self-damage from boosting.
This would give the nade-booster an advantage and a disadvantage. You could choose to have full health but having no height or speed bost, or you could go for a speed and height boost, at the cost of a significant part of your health.
This idea (Explosion Rag-Doll)
could lower the flaggers enthusiasm to boost away.
As an update to that topic, I believe that a few seconds of jets should straighten you up from the "flip" or semi-ragdoll state.
Yeah Sometimes it is annoying, but I don't think its such a big problem. This happens not every cw, so it's ok and as Outcast said, boosters tend to have low life, and so they're much easier to kill.
I say keep it.
Yes, more tactical gameplay PLEASE!
About the linear thingy:
Lets take and example of Bravo base of B2b. You are Bravo player, i am in alpha.
I come down, take health, take flag.
Now u get taunt that EFC up. You are on Bravo bridge, when i get the flag, i boost. so you just wait me while i fly above you, you dont notice me, and i have chance to cap.
Without boosting, i would have to fight you on bridge you are standing, maybe one cap less.
You know the tight games, where 1-2 caps are made.
Heres example of it:
I hold your bravo flag in my base. Now, you attack me with M79, i camp with barrett and snap you down even before you cant see me. This happens until round is ended.
If you boost with m79, to skies, you can attack me from UP, i have atleast 2 ways to get accaked (UP and Infront of me). You blast me off with M79, when i try to seek for you with my Barrett scope, and you cap, SN won.
what i mean, is that more ways to do things is never bad. Do you like more lienar, or non-linear games?
Linearity makes game to become boring after a while.
And remember this: It is map feature, if it has big areas where you can boost yourself, not M79 or nade nerfing. Dont play big maps then if it is an issue for you.
Quote:Originally posted by bl00dy_n0seYeah Sometimes it is annoying, but I don't think its such a big problem. This happens not every cw, so it's ok and as Outcast said, boosters tend to have low life, and so they're much easier to kill.
I say keep it.
Does this mean it needn't be changed? I know it happens rarely, but if it happens, easily the clan who would have lost quickly gets a last cap to win. Deservedly? Definitely not. Generally this is a tiny problem, but it can grow very big in certain situations.
"Deservedly? Definitely not."
IT IS A TACTIC? Yes? yes it is, got it? Get used to it that it CAN happen.
If the cw is so even, that with 1 cap you can win, then clan with more caps has been better by capping more. Is this true? yes.
I repeat: It is a map specific. Dont play maps with high areas where boosting is possible.
"IT IS A TACTIC? Yes? yes it is, got it? Get used to it that it CAN happen."
It is tactic? Yes? Well, seems you got a nice definition of tactics. At least for me, a tactic isn't something anyone can perform at any times, easily, which can make him win just as easily. But probably you also think defending your base by camping with a Barret is tactical :) If so, then there's really no need for further discussion here.
"If the cw is so even, that with 1 cap you can win, then clan with more caps has been better by capping more. Is this true? yes."
Is this true? No. Boosting when capturing the flag doesn't make you be better, for this it's just too easy. It doesn't have to do with skill at all. Doesn't make sense, isn't an argument.
"I repeat: It is a map specific. Dont play maps with high areas where boosting is possible."
This is a step too far, don't you think? I'm only concerned about boosting with the flag. I'm more or less fine with every other boosting possiblity. If that's your argument, then you could also have an auto-aiming Barret. It would be overpowered by far, but hey, it would be map specific, you could still play on a tiny map where other weapons would be better. So nope, that's also not an argument against such a rather small but important problem.
e.g. Equinox. What would that map be without M79 jumps?
Also, M79 self damage was already increased by 30%.
What do you expect now? 50% 75%? Maybe remove nade+m79 jumps?
Less features -> less fun.
Less freedom -> less fun.
less fun -> not much activiness.
To reduce this, whole boosting idea should be removed, or make damage SO HIGH that in LUCKY case efc has < 20% health, so boosting would be stupid. As long as it is worth it, it will be done.
Quote:Originally posted by The GeologistI don't get it...are you talking about m79/nade boosting? Or just using the jets? If it's only the latter then I'm afraid I can't agree with you there. However, if you're talking about m79/nade boosting, then perhaps an increase in power would go a ways to injuring/killing people who try to boost their way around. If that didn't keep people from boosting, it would make it much easier to kill them.
yea, im confused to..what exactly do you mean?
Gorramit, as if i was that hard to understand.
I am talking about nade-/m79-boosting while carrying the flag.
boosting is helpful on the big and open maps... which are b2b and equinox, so I can't see the problem, especially if you keep in mind that an experienced player expect such trick. M79 without boosting feature wouldn't be the same weapon. When the 1.1.0 version came out one of the main complaints was the lack of m79 boosting feature (as it was implemented in 105b). Besides it's fun :)
Eh, boosting can be annoying at times but I don't think it's really in need of nerfing.
Oh, btw, increasing damage doesn't do [CENSORED] squat. I see people in R/S m79 boost without even taking any self-damage.
Why am I even posting here..
Could some of you please read what I've posted, and what I'm actually talking about? Please?
Like, you say that efc boosting is horrible, you catn catch.
Now u try to remove 1 horrible feature from soldat.
I think it is horrible to lose a clanwar. We shoudl remove Caps, most killing team wins! yay.
ANothing horrible thing is when i lose in DM, lets remove kills, one who shoots most wins.
oh, and one more: Horrible thing after it is whole Soldat. Lets remove it from internet, so everyone is happy, and playinf is FAIR for everyone. :)
no need to weaken the boost, if you did that it may be impossible to get to your base (have you seen how large these maps are getting these days?!?).
Still none of you read my post, right? Smart, smart.
I am talking about boosting while having the enemy flag, at least you got that so far. I'm also just talking about weakening the boosting while carrying the flag. If you don't carry the flag, nothing has to change.
And Claw, please stop posting that nonsense. It certainly doesn't make you look smarter, especially if you didn't get what the topic is about, anyway.
We could talk to Michal about raising M79 self damage to around 60% ( currently it's 30% ). Or we could raise M79's damage by half, and we'd get the same effect.. with a splash-kill M79. Isn't worth it if you ask me.
naah! Bad idea.
U can spray booster up with auto. or just dont let him to do this.
Quote:Originally posted by dr.ONnaah! Bad idea.
U can spray booster up with auto. or just dont let him to do this.
If you could, then this wouldn't be a problem. You see, that's what makes it be problematic: Enemies can't do anything, as boosting makes you get extremely fast, therefore you will be out of range in less than a second.
And if you could control everything happening in the 20-30 minutes a clanwar takes I guess no flag would ever be captured, right? You could say it's a clan's problem if this happens. But a whole capture shouldn't be easy to achieve in a match against an equally strong opponent, and it usually isn't. It's not like touching the enemy flag is that hard, but getting away with it is. Still doing this by boosting doesn't take skill and isn't not any hard - you could even say it's noobish. Yet, it is still possible.