I didn't want to mess up peemonkey's post with this irrelevant issue.
But I think a nice discussion could turn out of this.
for thsoe who don't know what we're talking about here it goes:
peem said he was considering joining the army after he finishes school so I strongly suggested he wouldn't do that, since its a waste of time for someone with other options.
He said it builds character, so here goes:


Its true that the army builds character.
but then again it also wastes alot of time , time you can spend building a character AND education.
Example:
A friend of mine didn't get recruited to the army (Its mandetory in Israel) because of health issues he had.
So when I was in training camp he was in his first year of uni.
when I got out of the army, he had finished his degree.
while I he was studying, he also worked hard to pay for living expanses and school, that's VERY hard and also builds character.
while I was used to being taken care off, having a place to sleep, food, clothes etc etc..

After 3 years of army u don't rush into 3-4 years of studying, first u do other stuff, mostly improve high school grades, do the "SAT's" etc.. and a nice long trip somewhere to cool down.

So that's 4 years of my life, gone because I was in the army.
So sure, if you'll stick me in with 19 other guys from all different cultures , layers of society and so on, I'll get along, manage it and won't complain about the fact that I have to walk 2km naked to take a freaking shower in the middle of the winter.
While he was getting expirience with grown up civilian life issues, something we all have to deal with at some point.

But seriously, wth do I need that if I want to be a computer engenier, or a phsycologist??
Its a slight advantage compared to the 4 years I wasted because of the army, not to mention that my left shoulder is [CENSORED]ed up because of that lame ass excuse for a boot camp that we had.
Its not worth risking your health, and serving you country?
give me a break, serving you country is serving its purposes, with all do respect to your army, its nothing more than a mercenery army sent to do other ppl's dirty job, if I was american I wouldn't feel so proud of defending some post in some hell hole on the other side of the world.

Just for the record: I didn't say after school, as I'm not currently in school. Haven't been in school for years. I'm waiting for a bit to see about starting a family with my girlfriend.

Most people in America go for university, and some just drop out. Some, however, decide that the military is either the best way to go, or sometimes for certain people, it's the only way to go. I'm fairly certain I could get a nice successful life going without uni or military service, but if I didn't join, I'd likely feel a hole in myself, as it's already been eating at me to join.

I'd feel proud doing anything I'd be good at to improve my country and myself, and I feel I'd best do it in the military, without the politics behind whatever I'm told to do.

Here in Australia (I'm not sure what the go is everywhere else), the army is a pretty good way to go if you get a bad OP and can't go to uni... You can join the army choose what you'd like to do (eg. a trade, such as electrician or computer programmer, etc) and yuou learn it there. The only downside is, if it took you three years to learn how to be an electrician, you'll have to serve the army for three years as an electrician.

Apparently there are a whole bunch of different jobs you can do.

Do school while being in the army? :)

Yes ofcourse the army has alot of positions other then combast soldiers.
But you don't always get to choose them, espacialy if the army is mandetory!
Here it is, so some are lucky to get what they want, some fight their way in the system to do it and actualy manage (rarely though).
I have a friend who actualy developed a career with his army training on a new software most companies use.
Alot of ppl also choose army life as a career, after 3 years of mandetory service u get paided for it , but then again statistics show that most of them develope gray hair by the time they turn 30 :S figure out the reason by yourself.

I'm not sure how it is in the army there and how long do you committe when you sign up, but think about it seriously, because this feeling you have might be just your naive self , and when you look at back at it a few years ahead, you might regret it.

@outty - you can't go to any kind of school while serving.
yet the requirements to quallify for certain positions in the army includes first or second degree, which you do as a part of your training procedure. (the only position i know that has the option to go to uni and have a degree while serving is a submarine sergeant)

That's really crap, most officers I've served with in the headquarters were studying for second degree and some for thier first while they were serving the army.
Plus you can't make such a statement because in other armies its different, some armies in the world demand their officers to already have a degree, common soldiers in Israel as well can study while serving in the army (the open university anyone?).
You can't make such a generalization when talking about the army in general.

i was talking about the army in israel.
and to be honest i had no idea that you can still manage to study while having to serve 5 days a week (weekend off), without having alot of vacations or a really crappy position as a jobnick with assload of spare time.

I'd choose uni :P

don't go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we would miss you maybe? :P

Ok, it's not just a feeling, I've been thinking about all the negative and positive aspects of joining for over a year, but I'm not goining to be joiing any time soon. I'm not some dumb kid who sees Jarhead or Full Metal Jacket and says "Hey, I wanna do that!".

maybe that kid should see saving private ryan or we were soldiers.....

school, army is for people who think world peace could never happen ;)

It won't happen :D

read my sig... hehe...its so true.

EDIT: i got that from the punisher movie.
the movie was ok i thought..but that quote is true and so awsome.

I suppose the only real way for peace would be to kill everybody. Just to be on the safe side.

i agree with you :)

Its a known fact that in Korean men of certain age are recruited into the army automaticaly, and if they are smart enough (like if they knew english) they would become an united states Katusa, which is a korea army guy working with the Americans.

Oh i think war will make world peace, how you say? Well one country would dominate the world, and so there would be no more wars with countries!

Well it depends if you went to uni and actually took it seriously or not. A ton of people just piss around and at the end of the day, leave the place with some crappy as BA that means bugger all. Do what feels right for you, if you think the army would be the best way to progress your career/life then go for it.

But then again, we're all just randoms over the internet and what we say will have no effect whatsoever.

Indeed :D

actually if one country ruled the world then there would be a rebellion....so har har

I implimented alot of advices I've seen on the net.
Some worked, some not, just like real life friends gave me.
ppl keep saying "its just the net" but fact is, its not, we spend here a significant amount of time, might as well use it for something..
If you trust someone to help you with computer issues on the net, you can also trust him with other stuff, atleast give it some thought.

 Quote:Originally posted by peemonkeyJust for the record: I didn't say after school, as I'm not currently in school. Haven't been in school for years. I'm waiting for a bit to see about starting a family with my girlfriend.

Most people in America go for university, and some just drop out. Some, however, decide that the military is either the best way to go, or sometimes for certain people, it's the only way to go. I'm fairly certain I could get a nice successful life going without uni or military service, but if I didn't join, I'd likely feel a hole in myself, as it's already been eating at me to join.

I'd feel proud doing anything I'd be good at to improve my country and myself, and I feel I'd best do it in the military, without the politics behind whatever I'm told to do.


personally i would not go to the millitary, you could be learning about something cool instead of someone calling you a maggot for 4 or more years.

The only learning I think I'll ever be involved in again will be in Law Enforecment or corrections. The only future I see myself as having involves being in charge or around firearms. And possibly a family. Been talkin about that lately. gah.

Ah so you just want to shoot things, that's your nitch ^_^
so this is how the americans get so many recruits, they allow ppl to carry weapons, give kids the option to shoot guns and when they grow up they become suckers for the US army ^_^

ah just kidding...
anyhow, ever cosidered to be in the development area? studying something in that area then working in a commpany that makes weapons, prehapes open a weapons shop? I understand those are quite popular in the US.

Plenty of options that do not require you to risk your life, your physical and/or mental health and revolve around firearms.

Also think about the family aspect, you won't be around much as a soldier.

I would never volunteer to be a pawn. I would play chess... I would never be a piece, with no brains, executing orders without free will. If you want to serve your country... Help it, and don't walk away from your country to destroy another...

Perfect soldiers by the army code are robots with logic thinking.
There are not perfect soldiers in the world, so you're talking about Matrix or something....

one other thing... They are given an M4, to use it.... But if they use it, they end up in jail. It happened to some guy in the Dutch army. I can't remember his name though.

Who are they? because what you're talking about isn't the army I know.

 Quote:Originally posted by OkAh so you just want to shoot things, that's your nitch ^_^
so this is how the americans get so many recruits, they allow ppl to carry weapons, give kids the option to shoot guns and when they grow up they become suckers for the US army ^_^

ah just kidding...
anyhow, ever cosidered to be in the development area? studying something in that area then working in a commpany that makes weapons, prehapes open a weapons shop? I understand those are quite popular in the US.


Pretty irionic considering every second person in Isreal is slinging some sort of automatic rifle over their shoulder :P

@Pmonkey, if you're gonna join the army, go for it! You've obviously weighed up the pros and cons in the ways of family life and all that other stuff I know [CENSORED] all about. Do you want to do anything specifically, such as being a marine or foot soldier or something else like an army plumber?

Rhombus, stop calling U.S. soldiers "pawns", that's disrespectful man.
CB, I don't know, just as long as I'm doing something important to me.

 Quote:

Pretty irionic considering every second person in Isreal is slinging some sort of automatic rifle over their shoulder :P


It would be ironic if that was true.
So that Israel you're talking about, does it exist outside that box you watch all day long? prehapes that Israel is also at peace who knows, I would like to visit there.

wtf
nobody i know have any gun.. WHY DONT I KNOW ANY SECOND PERSONS ?!

Because its another Israel dumbass! like duh!

I'm cool with Israel, I'm just never going to go there. :D

What do you want me to call the soldiers? Bishops? Knights? Burritos? It's all the same to me... none of those named are allowed to think for themselves. Can you imagine a game of chess where a white pawn is about to be slaughtered by the queen, so you can put the black king in a "checkmate" position? Good. Now imagine that pawn saying: "screw it, I am NOT going to die for some stupid-ass moron all the way back in the US. This is MY game, MY war!!!" and then the pawn moves, allowing the queen to stay in place, and the game to continue, when it could have ended already. A good pawn doesn't think for himself. A good pawn can not be human, since survival is the most basic instinct.

 Quote:Originally posted by Ok Quote:

Pretty irionic considering every second person in Isreal is slinging some sort of automatic rifle over their shoulder :P


It would be ironic if that was true.
So that Israel you're talking about, does it exist outside that box you watch all day long? prehapes that Israel is also at peace who knows, I would like to visit there.


I suppose I should have made the :P bigger.
Stupid dumbarse paddy whacker :P

:P

Rhombus, I may sound retarded, but I doubt Bush is putting soldiers into situations where they have to die so he can get the upper hand...

true, but do you think he will regret the fact a lot of soldiers died? nope. to him, they are just statistics, numbers... You think he can't sleep at night because of some John Doe who was KIA?
I think he dislikes the fact that Humvees are being destroyed more than the fact that his countrymen die because of his decisions.

Dunno which army you're talking about, but no situation is 100% predictable , in every soldier's career there are places where he has to take decisions based on his own judgment, no book tells you everything.

Good soldiers can think for themselves, true they are not allowed to act freely on their own judgment all teh time, but there are situations the rules dont mention, thus they HAVE to, not just CAN they HAVE to make a decision by themselves.

Rhombus, your remarks about soldiers being pawns are really having you come off as 'against the troops', at least in my eyes. It's kinda [CENSORED]ed up to call human beings pawns and such just to make your point sound reinforced to yourself.

 Quote:Originally posted by Rhombustrue, but do you think he will regret the fact a lot of soldiers died? nope. to him, they are just statistics, numbers... You think he can't sleep at night because of some John Doe who was KIA?
I think he dislikes the fact that Humvees are being destroyed more than the fact that his countrymen die because of his decisions.


Bush knew that people, especially American soldiers would die... it is a war. Has there ever been a war where no soldiers from one side have died at all?

peemonkey... I am not against the troops, I am against the American government. And what the soldiers do there does suck...

we're in a scarier situation than the cold war was...

mmm i know alot about how the army works and how famlies are affected (dont ask me why though, i just do).

Here are some facts

-Having an army dad and/or army mom doesnt mean that they wont have much of a life. Most of the time these parents get transfered to other bases in other countries and the children are allowed to come along and learn about countries they wouldnt normally be able to go.

-Everyone (or most,i dunno) goes through basic training, and they must be able to use a gun,and all other kinds of army bla bla. And every here and there they go and train at the firing range (even out of training) and also every month or so go out on camping trips.

-Usually when you join the army you can have a free college education.

-free health care

-they dont like being called pawns

-they dont work as one, they work as a team.

 Quote:Originally posted by thekingkittymmm i know alot about how the army works and how famlies are affected (dont ask me why though, i just do).

Here are some facts

-Having an army dad and/or army mom doesnt mean that they wont have much of a life. Most of the time these parents get transfered to other bases in other countries and the children are allowed to come along and learn about countries they wouldnt normally be able to go.

-Everyone (or most,i dunno) goes through basic training, and they must be able to use a gun,and all other kinds of army bla bla. And every here and there they go and train at the firing range (even out of training) and also every month or so go out on camping trips.

-Usually when you join the army you can have a free college education.

-free health care

-they dont like being called pawns

-they dont work as one, they work as a team.


that mostly works for the US army, but no one said anything about the soldier's family being away.
I simply stated that he won't have much time for his family, and in most cases , espacialy where he wants to be (peemonkey) which involves dealing with firarms, he won't have much time for family.
though that's far ahead, since you can always quit the army at some point.

I simply gave him a point of view from someone who WAS NOT a combat soldier, and got to see near the end of the service how ppl with families don't get to see their family much due to army tasks and duties even though their base was 30 minutes away from home and they were working in an office.

 Quote:I simply gave him a point of view from someone who WAS NOT a combat soldier, and got to see near the end of the service how ppl with families don't get to see their family much due to army tasks and duties even though their base was 30 minutes away from home and they were working in an office.


uh not trying to argue but well, thats not entirely true, 50 percent of the famlies live on base, and usually they are able to come home to their family every night, even if the family if offbase, they may not have time for their famlies if they are in training or school or on night duty or , or if they live in a barrack (which usually only happens if they are a low rank and/or dont have a family) or ofcourse he goes to a war.

you got a good discussion here

 Quote:Originally posted by Rhombuspeemonkey... I am not against the troops, I am against the American government. And what the soldiers do there does suck...

we're in a scarier situation than the cold war was...


I'm assuming by 'there' you mean Iraq...
The fact is, Bush did the right thing by taking down Saddam. Because of that, Bush's actions have saved a lot of lives. BUT, the deed has been done, so all foreign soldiers need to ship out of Iraq (Once an Iraqee government has been established and they have a reliable police force, which is way, way overdue). Bush has kept the army there too long and there has been too much inactivity. Bush isa bit short of being an ideal president, and does tend to screw things up sometimes but he did the right thing.

But what do I know? I live in Imperial Australia.

I ain't been following this topic, but I just wanted to ask...


...anyone remember 'LieroGuy'? Just wanted to know how he was getting on. Last I heard he was in the american army and looking for a way to leave the country (illegally)to new zealand to get out of it.

He's on Yahoo a lot, might ask him 'the hell is up with you man?' if he logs in next time. I think he's in Alaska at the moment.

Last I heard he was in alaska and goin along well.

That's good to hear. he was a nice guy.

And you know what... I am not going to discuss this anymore, because (Yes, I know) we need armies, because other countries have them too. I need soldiers looking out for my sorry ass... But I myself would never join the army... because I love what I have too much.

 Quote:Originally posted by thekingkitty Quote:I simply gave him a point of view from someone who WAS NOT a combat soldier, and got to see near the end of the service how ppl with families don't get to see their family much due to army tasks and duties even though their base was 30 minutes away from home and they were working in an office.


uh not trying to argue but well, thats not entirely true, 50 percent of the famlies live on base, and usually they are able to come home to their family every night, even if the family if offbase, they may not have time for their famlies if they are in training or school or on night duty or , or if they live in a barrack (which usually only happens if they are a low rank and/or dont have a family) or ofcourse he goes to a war.

you got a good discussion here


coming home every night is not my description of "having time with your family"
And don't forget special assignments that pop up from time to time and takes weeks of your time.
not to mention the fact that in the army "urgent" assignments are pretty much 100% of them unlike a work place that is really busy for example.

You don't need the army to keep u too busy for familty life, enough working men barely have time without being in the army.
The army is just 100% like that.
Plus moving around all over the world might sound nice and all, but it sure as hell not health for your kids, kids need social life more then adventure.

Working in the army is like working in any kind of job, just sometimes you can have night duty, or go on camping trips, or go to war. Kids do have a social life, first off there is school with school programs like any other kind of school. There are plenty of kids in the army to make friends with. Bases usually try to have many programs and stuff for people to do. And there are bowling allys!


And parents do normally have a 2 day off schedule (with vacations and holidays)

Well the US army isn't like any other job these days, it's not like they keep you in country long.

Sigh
WAS TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THEY MOVE BASES!
dude , no matter what you say or want to think an army dad is a busy dad, very few get those jobs that they barely do anything and get to spend less time, but those are a minority and should not be looked at as a role model, here we call them leechers, prehapes the soldier you happen to know is one.. dunno

Fact is army life do not let a dad be a 100% dad he can be, and there's nothing you can do about it. its the army, it has needs and requirments regular job place do NOT have.
Don't try to make it look like its just a regular job, because that's bollox...

Plus, that guy here doesnt want to be a deskjob soldier, he wants action and position around firearms, those are not the kind of jobs you talk off.

Mmm Alot of people who want to shoot stuff are gunna be deployed to a war, but the people who aren't are well, deployed in bases, and they are pretty much doing "desk jobs" or guarding, some guys want it that way. But if he really wants to be around the action and chaos of war, try to go to a base that are deploying men to war.

And why cant they be looked at role models? Are they evil??

"leechers?" k well people in other countries dont mind them at all (besides the protests here and there). The reason for a base to be in a country in the first place is because there is a war there, or protection, and stuff.

It is a normal job in the sense. Its a career, you get paid, you work, all jobs are like these, and some jobs need special requirements, and the army also has special requirements.

And the army dad (or woman) can be a 100 percent dad (or woman) if they had the chance to. I mean sure they cant be with their children when they are out in a war. But pretty much if he (or she) aint in a war (or training). They have plenty of time for their children. Dont make it sound like they are training everyday, camping every week, because its not like that at all. (did i say they had 2 days off with holidays and vacations too?)

Peemonkey: If your talking about keeping people in other countries then they do tend to sometimes keep you in other countries VERY long, could be 3 years tops (or a year at the lowest).

Oh and the army does sometimes make you move to other bases (but only after a year, or 3 years)

mm please dont yell at me, i have sensitive emotions :

 Quote:Originally posted by thekingkittyMmm Alot of people who want to shoot stuff are gunna be deployed to a war, but the people who aren't are well, deployed in bases, and they are pretty much doing "desk jobs" or guarding, some guys want it that way. But if he really wants to be around the action and chaos of war, try to go to a base that are deploying men to war.


Famous Australian ex-head hunter Chopper Read was rejected by the amry because he had 'violent tendencies'...

Not related to the topic, but that's pretty... strange.

 Quote:Originally posted by Rhombustrue, but do you think he will regret the fact a lot of soldiers died? nope. to him, they are just statistics, numbers... You think he can't sleep at night because of some John Doe who was KIA?
I think he dislikes the fact that Humvees are being destroyed more than the fact that his countrymen die because of his decisions.


HAH [CENSORED] CAUGHT YOU

you said in the other topic that all the planes do the work, and that no soldiers die :P

and another thing JOIN THE CANADIAN ARMY we make friends with our enemy :D

wow.

Leecher = someone who gets something and doesnt give in return.
dunno what that crap about other countries don't minding them (wth??) means, but whatever.

a leecher, or in hebrew we like to call them "free eaters" is someone who is coming to the base late, goes home early ,in betwin does nothing and gets paid the same as someone who works his ass off 'till night time in another base. or even in the same base in another position.

Everyone works the same amount work (some harder than others) how do you know that they are doing this?

Kingkitty, you don't seem to realise we're at war. When you sign up you don't get what you want, they got your signature, they got you. It's no longer up to you if you want a desk job. If someone wants a desk job, the military is a very stupid [CENSORED]ing thing to join.

Joining the military has other oppotunities, some may join for the free college education, but also there are specialized jobs (besides killing stuff) that could be in your dream career(while learning to shoot). And desk jobs are needed if you want to run bases. Now maybe if you join now you have a good chance of going to war, but some people who joined the army a bit before the war or more likely people who already gone to war will end up with specialized type of jobs that are needed.

You see you cant be a doctor if you dont know how to fix someone. You can't be a mechanic is you don't know how to fix things. You can't be a Dentist if you can't fix teeths.


There is alot more to the army than just shooting(though knowing how to shoot is needed).

Why is it so stupid for serving your country but in a nonviolent way?

 Quote:Originally posted by Chakra`Last I heard he was in the american army and looking for a way to leave the country (illegally)to new zealand to get out of it.

COOL we can hang out and be buddies and play soldat!!!

I don't think he wants to join the army to shoot a gun once in a while (shooting practice)
mr kitty, get the idea, he wants to be a combat soldier, period.
No matter what you say or how you say it, combat soldiers DO NOT have a life optimal for a family.

And if you're going for a desk job, might as well do it as a civilian, as I said in the beginning, the army is a good place for someone with no other options.

Alright.. in the USA, there's a program called the USNSCC.. basically and youth division of the US Navy that I am in. I know a lot about the military, the benefits, the disadvantages, etc.

There's an internal feeling that one gets from military service that you can't get anywhere else. Building character as a civilian vs. as part of a team, with other guys you'd trust your lives to is completely different. Yes, as a civilian you can learn to be self-diciplined, but in the military, you can do that along with improve your moral character, gain a feeling that is unexplainable -- one that you will know when you feel it after enduring and conquering.

While you're in the military (applying to the US) as an enlistedman, you will be pressured very often to take college courses during your service. You could even have the military pay for you to go to college for 4 years (and you'd have to serve another 4 or so, depending, but if you enjoy it, why not?) Either way, you will be asked to take college level courses that apply when you get out, and the military pays for them.

Joining the military isn't always a waste of time, especially if it's something you really want to do. I know people that were in for 28-30 years.. joined up out of highschool, stayed in, and they definately don't regret it. They say that they feel sorry for people who haven't served, because of that feeling that I described earlier, I assume.

Either way, if you do choose to, Bravo Zulu to you. I'd suggest the Marine Corps over the Army (because Marines tend to be better basically trained, and the Army always gets the grunt work, refering to the Infantry.) Plus you get to ride on the cool Navy ships and poke fun at sailors.

What are you interested in doing if you do join?

 Quote:Originally posted by a-4-year-old Quote:Originally posted by peemonkeyJust for the record: I didn't say after school, as I'm not currently in school. Haven't been in school for years. I'm waiting for a bit to see about starting a family with my girlfriend.

Most people in America go for university, and some just drop out. Some, however, decide that the military is either the best way to go, or sometimes for certain people, it's the only way to go. I'm fairly certain I could get a nice successful life going without uni or military service, but if I didn't join, I'd likely feel a hole in myself, as it's already been eating at me to join.

I'd feel proud doing anything I'd be good at to improve my country and myself, and I feel I'd best do it in the military, without the politics behind whatever I'm told to do.


personally i would not go to the millitary, you could be learning about something cool instead of someone calling you a maggot for 4 or more years.


A common misconception... yes, at Basic (boot camp), you are broken down so that you realized that you're not "all that." You are then trained, built back up as a better person. While you serve, you're not called a maggot. You're part of a team, you have a job to do. Teams have to work together, not insult eachother. I've got through boot camp. I know.

Combat seems like the thing for me, I'm tired of sitting around for a living and I wouldn't feel too fulfilled being "in the rear with the gear", wherever that may be. For a list of reasons, I, and some friends of mine who where in the Corps, think I'd be a nice basic rifleman or automatic rifleman. I know the guy with the machine gun has to carry lots more, but that wouldn't be too hard for be because I'm a hearty [CENSORED] with nice endurance and strength.

Well, go for it. As long as you're not flat footed, you can join the infantry. (There are a few other stupid things that disqualify you, also.) I've read this thread, and I can tell that it's something you want to do, so all I can do is encourage that. In the Marines, things are set up in threes. Three marines (plus a team leader) make up a team. Three teams make up a squad, three squads make up a platoon, three platoons make a company, three companies a battalion, etc.

There are other jobs that get you "in the [CENSORED]" as the saying goes. For example, something that I want to do is FO - forward observation. As an FO, you move (in a team) forward of Artillery positions to ensure that the artillery is hitting where it's supposed to. It's a tough and demanding job.

There are many other opportunities as well. Some websites show you many of the different jobs the military offers, and it's civilian counter part. Military.com, USmilitary.com, and the best (IMO) todaysmilitary.com

I hope those things help you, and I hope, in the end, you end up doing what you want to do, because that's the only thing you truthfully control in life.

Regards,
Brandon Wasicsko
Seaman, USNSCC Spruance Division

There's no doubt the army has it benefits, but no one tells you about the disadvantages...
Personaly, as someone who lives in a country that NEEDS an army to survive, and where a service is mandetory, I seriously can't see a good reason to why someone will willingly join the army if he has other options, it seems like such a waste, I mean its not like the US are in shortage of soldiers, and its not liek you'll be "defending your country" there really isn't any urgent need for it, those who were in the army, survived it without any harm and left, would never know what would happen and what would they achieve in civilians life, while the ones who chose civilians lifes could pretty much predict what would happen if they would have joined the army, not all together, but close enough.
I mean, sure you have this great expiriences , and great stories to tell, and army buddies are life buddies, that's for sure, most of my best friends ARE from the army.
But I still say, you don't NEED army expirience for real life, as a matter of fact, the army kinda holds you back on that, joining civilian life after being in the army is a kind of a shock.

But I guess a guy needs to do what he feels right. so good luck.

Of course you don't need to serve, but, as you've said, the situation in Israel and the US is completely different. Israel and America both need an Army, but the actual use of yours is much more urgent. Ours is more of a show of power (though, the navy takes care of most of that [= ). We are in a shortage of soldiers because we have an idiot president who 1) starts wars he shouldn't and 2) commits more troops to some desert wasteland. And whether you go to war, or sit in a desk for 4 years in the service, you will still have "served your country" because you offered your life to it. Whether you had the opportunity to or not is different. Point is, you offered.

You mentioned that it holds you back and civilian life is a shock.. well peemonkey, corect me if I'm wrong, but you've been out of highschool and have been living the civilian life for a while now, yes?

Any change comes as a shock. It's just as shocking getting chewed out on your first day of Basic as it is on your discharge date back to civilian life, but at least he'll have knowledge of what civy life is like beforehand. He'll know which he likes more.

And what's to say he wont stay in for 10, 15, 30 years? He could go career, who knows?

That's what I was affraid of, that he'll stay there :)

Personaly I like your president, its like having a nice guardian doing all your dirty work, the world's dirty work as a matter of fact.
True he doesnt give a #%@ about Israel but those actions benefit the whole world.
He could use all those resources to just defend the US inside the US or just improve the security measures.
But instead he's doing the world's dirty work, weather the world likes it or not.
Personaly I would just make america a nice fortress, let them rumble with terror, let those pussies get blown up by some bombs, and then have them beg for help in war against terror and by that have a free pass to just bomb and destroy anything needed to be destroyed without any dutch/swedish/danish/any other country that has a WAY too good of a life , annoying the crap out of me.

ah got carried away there ^_^ anyhow, enjoy the army mate if you go for it.
I still say Uni is better then the army IF YOU CAN ofcourse.

Btw, anyone knows how much does an american infantry soldier get paid?
an Israeli one gets paid around 150$ if he's in the "front".
A none combat soldier gets paid around 75$.
Yes it is pocket money , its not like that's a real sallary in Israel or something ^_^

So how much?

mmm well it could be 500 dollars err or 1000 or 1500 or 2000 dollers, it depends on your e rank and some other stuff like you get extra pay if you stay in a base for a few more years

mr.ok, i personally do think that you can have the best family even in the army, so from now on lets keep our views from telling whos wrong and whos right,

edit,blaa

No one said anything about having the best or wrost family.