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Just to clear things up.
Soldat Forums - Soldat Talk - Weapon Balance Discussion
April 19, 2006, 3:19 pm
1.1b has been here for quite a while, and no serious complaints have been done. This leads me to the conclusion that people don't test it. Either that, or everyone's satisfied.

So get this: if there are no serious complaints when the beta starts, 1.1b is going to stay. Test it, for your own good.

April 21, 2006, 4:24 am
In 1.1b, the autos are far too weak compared to the other weapons, except the minigun which is no longer a joke.

Seriously, they are worthless as they barely cause any bink anyway. The extra bink on the ruger looks like it won't help the autos, and while I was being fired upon by a hk at close range whilst using a baz resulted in me easily shooting them in half with a direct shot.

And I have no idea as to why the desert eagles and the spas's firing rate has been reduced; I have not encountered anyone in the last couple of versions that have been able to be completely effective with either of these weapons anyway.

oh and the knife is way to fast in 1.1b, and travels such a linear and straight path.

Everything except the M79 which needs only a *slight* adjustment is fine as it is... next version shouldn't be about changing the guns, think of something else to tinker with.

Unless you make all the weapons good, someone is going to be cut with how their fav. weapon seems weaker, so just drop it ok? I'd rather live with the current balance than accept 1.1b.
That's why 1.2(/.1) is the best version. Everything rocks.

And how about we get less serious bugs next version? Was 1.3.1 seriously beta tested at all, and is that why it is so much better than 1.3?

April 21, 2006, 7:44 pm
I don't think anyone really tests this out. Not everybody visits the Soldat Forums, so these modifications aren't really known all around. And since I think most 'vets' don't play (WM) servers, it's not going to be tested. I'd rather take the whole 30 minutes I actually I have each day to play to play in a real server to keep my skill and technics fresh for a clan war I might play sometime.

I don't have any real ideas to help promote testing of 1.1b settings. But I played with them once and thought to myself. "Damn, this game is going to be slow paced and minimal action." The game currently could be just slightly faster in game play. Since everyone likes to grenade, m79, and barret kill since it's so much faster. It takes less work to kill someone with a couple grenades and some spraying, or an m79 shot. I never did like these 1.1b changes, but 1 man's words can't change the outcome of everything. It's just the lack of effort that people have to try to help contribute.

The way to help make your weapon modifications more fair in actual game play is to decrease the HP and Grenade Packs respawn time on the maps. And also decrease how many there are in games. Because I played with these settings against a game with bots. there were 5 bots on each team. And when i attacked, the weapons were so slow paced that it takes so many shots just to kill someone it's almost pointless to try to attack 2 people at once. You're always going to end up in quick defeat and hardly damage either of those players.

The weapons should be strong enough that even if you get caught on a 2vs1 position that you should be able to nearly kill at least 1 of those players, if not be able to kill 1. And considering since how many shots it takes to kill someone, you'll have to reload your weapon more often, so then if you are attacking, you have to back off for that much longer so your weapon could reload. Thus, they have respawned, you're nearly dead, and they kill you before you can do any type of damage in trying to do whatever objective game variety you are playing. I can see these settings working the best in a Deathmatch game varient, but in any other game varient, it's to slow paced and the games are going to end in slow pace and bordom.

Of course I don't have any ideas or suggestions to try to help out considering since I haven't played 1.1b all that much. But this is what I've seen in game and I dont' see a positive outcome from 1.1b.

April 28, 2006, 5:12 pm
What server is it modded on? i can't find it mentioned anywhere, even if i'll lag there, i'd just like to check it out and drop my thoughts cause as it stands i have no idea what the movement accuracy thing on autos is and i'm wondering why one of the least used weapons was nerfed(deagles). So to stop my self complaining server details? or is it not up as of yet?

April 29, 2006, 1:54 am
 Quote:Originally posted by RoosterWhat server is it modded on? i can't find it mentioned anywhere, even if i'll lag there, i'd just like to check it out and drop my thoughts cause as it stands i have no idea what the movement accuracy thing on autos is and i'm wondering why one of the least used weapons was nerfed(deagles). So to stop my self complaining server details? or is it not up as of yet?

1.1b has since been replaced with 1.1c

It's much better, the only differences are:
* twice as much movement accuracy penalty (or is it self bink?)for the autos (except the minimi, which is at 150%, which = a big WTF since it's the most used and sprayed with auto...by like 2:1 over the next most used auto)
* I think it's just a delay added to the M79 which I am more or less happy with
* More power to the minigun (may be less self bink also, can't remember)
* can't remember about the socom, hopefully nothing's changed, it seems people have a vendetta against this thing...
* the knife has a slight speed increase (not so ridiculous as it was in 1.1b)
* and the Chainsaw is now more powerful and has a much faster rate of fire, it's much better.

I'm pretty sure the deagles, spas, ruger, and barret have been left alone.

So comments on 1.1c are much better, I don't really see the point of adding so much self bink or whatever to the autos. making clan wars more deagle friendly or something? I can live with it, but I don't prefer it at all.

April 29, 2006, 7:54 am
With 1.1b, I tried nerfing autos to weaken the power of mass-spray tactic. This time around I'm trying to buff up semi automatics, so they match autos in power if used in team.

Altough yesterday's balance testing proved a lot, I'll leave this running for a week. Maybe even get a server for it.

April 29, 2006, 7:55 am
Would it fit for real mod ? :D

April 29, 2006, 3:16 pm
So the deagles still get the 2 shot kill headshot? Am i right in thinking the auto nerfidge is the same as the ruger thing where if you move you lose accuracey? If this is the case won't it slow the game down into a jetup instead of jet forward? like the ruger is atm :S?
Like i mean the autos dominate the australian scene, totally. I'm probably the sole deagler and i even revert to autos alot, actually there is a good few deaglers but nowhere near asmany auto users + nade combo. I think the way we play it is very different we have hardly any ruger useres at all, this has been the case for atleast 3 versions. Anyway i'm getting off topic here... So yeah if my questions could be answered, i'd apperciate it ty in advance.

April 29, 2006, 3:48 pm
For the next beta balance I plan to make semi automatics to kill in 2 shots in the hands of a skilled player, and in 3 in the hands of a less-skilled one. ( meaning 3 hit kill if there's legshot involved ). That way DE, Spas and ruger would finally stand up against team auto usage.

And you are right, Movement accuracy is what makes you loose precision when travelling at higher speed.

Deleted User
April 29, 2006, 8:25 pm
where can I find 1.1c? or is it now 1.2b?

Deleted User
April 29, 2006, 10:45 pm
I think 1.1b is not too great. Its easier to balance out weapons by adding new stuff (off-screen damage reduction for autos) instead of increasing reload and lowering damage which will make them weaker for on-screen people also, because with this you have to tweak all the other weapons also, which creates more room for a [CENSORED]ed up balance.

Its kind of sad that you are adding delay to m79, m79 users have dropped alot over the past few months, even in public servers. In the North American community, I am serious when I say there are about 5 m79 users in clanwars.

Im not really going to speak from numbers, because something may look good on paper but be bad in practice, I cannot test these weapons by myself and nobody else ever is testing them.

Deleted User
April 30, 2006, 8:41 pm
Being an almost 'pure' minimi user, i'd like to see just how much the ruger is being improved, and the other changes etc. How/where can I test this?

May 1, 2006, 5:59 am
I'm wondering if you can clear something up for me...

Why is it that the minimi has so much less self bink than the other autos? It's ridiculously more potent than the steyr 1.2b. The steyr has absolutely no advantage in a realistic situation, as the bullets you're firing are bound to not hit, and if you're "tapping" you won't even have the rate of fire advantage which the steyr has over the minimi... it's the only advantage.

I also don't like the delay added to the grenades; it isn't going to make nade spammers spam less at all. It's just screwing over the people who use timing to their advantage, and actually have skill with nades.

With too much time required to make a decent throw, it's going to result in less hits as it will also make them easier to dodge. so essentially, there will be MORE spam than before.
Not a fan of changing the nades at all, and I think the above reasons are pretty damn fair.

May 1, 2006, 7:08 am
I'm not liking the sound of this grenade slowdown so far, not one bit. I thought the nades were gettign some sort of interval slowidge down where you could throw a nade but then gotta wait a second before you can chuck another, if they're getting charge up. i seriously cannot see this stopping spam. I dont know anyone who nade spams and can outdo a pro nade user in aus. All you're doing is makign it harder and harder for pro players to kill people with well timed grenades. I reall really hope person has been misinformed and that i haven't.

May 1, 2006, 7:41 am
I already said what I had to say lots seemed to agree as well as disagree. In short

Weapons to IMPROVE (meaning add to NOT take away) in some way.

1- Minigun: Make it actually be able to hold its own as a primary weapon. ADD SOMETHING without taking away anything (power)

2- Knife: A little bit more speed would help those knives that hit that shoulda killed.

3- Ruger: Ruger got railed this version and has ever since 1.2.1 or more you guys made a slugish weapon even more slugish with what was supose to be a 2 hit kill but 90% of the time isnt. Go ahead talk about it in my sig but the fact is I been using the aug in this version a lot. The rugers too easy to counter (run back and forth on the ground or spray em bink em) ADD SOMETHING without taking away anything (speed, reload or fire rate)

4- Nades read below.

Weapons to keep the same and do not touch..

All that wasnt mentioned above. Dont add here and there only to take away and unbalance things yet again. Try to add this time without taking away, just try it and see how the community responds.

Above all else please fix this register crap expecially with nades my nades as well as others do not kill for crap compared to others. Nades should work just as effectively for everyone as should every weapon and this is not the case. I dont want to hear theres nothing that can be done.

Im done with this forum until next version these are my unchanged final opinions as stated before, good luck with next version.

May 1, 2006, 9:45 am
person and Rooster: have you actually bothered to try out 1.2b? Because you don't sound like you did, at all.

GO, if anything the ruger hasn't been slugged this time: as I've tried it, there are much more 2 hit kills now than before, and I didn't decrease speed values for it.

I can't fix nade registering, altough oddly the changes I applied made grenades more effective in some way. Besides, the 'Grenades aren't insta-kill on body- and head hits' thing is a balance feature now: imagine if all your nades would kill, you'd have +4 one-hit-kill weapons at your proposal, which you could reload any time you want.

May 1, 2006, 9:53 am
Well, demonic, it sounds to me as though you haven't played your [CENSORED] at all, and are just using the new statistics as a guide to make your bs up.

And you obviously don't know English very well either, because Rooster clearly has indicated he has NOT played 1.2b.
You probably aren't from an English speaking nation, so maybe get someone that can speak it fluently to communicate with the English speaking majority of this sites' demographic?

Your competence level = not high!

Deleted User
May 1, 2006, 1:45 pm
A skilled ruger user is a very hard opponent. Since when did it need strengthening?

May 1, 2006, 2:00 pm
Believe what you want: but hurling insults won't get you anywhere. Take your flames elsewhere.

Occasionally I slap on the balance to a server, advertise it on IRC, and when a game's going on I see what's balanced and what's not. SDFilm, the main problem about balance isn't the 'one player' situation: if it would be, we would've stopped at 1.2.1. The problem is that group auto usage dominates the battlefield, and most scrims are won by the clan who can shoot more random spray towards the enemy base. The plan is to make semi automatics stand a chance against that horrid tactic.

May 1, 2006, 3:13 pm
Would it not be possible to make bullets disapate?
Also my question hasn't been answered yet about grenades, i'm not out to attack you or anything man just keep that in mind, im just tryin to find out abit of info on the beta/situation with how things are changing. I cant test stuff or check it out cause noone gave me info and yes i have looked if there is a beta server etc, this is why i asked the questions to beguin with. Rest assured i did not come to this forum to cause trouble... i'll have a look around for the irc channel i spose unless someone can give me the info :D?

May 1, 2006, 3:30 pm
It's easy to test the balance. Download it, copy it into your soldat folder, start the game and do /loadwep exp. That's all it needs.

Since Michal is busy with something else, we're trying to make a the balance ourselfes with the tools given: but things like bullets disappearing and damage decrease over range can only be done by him.

As for grenades: they have been given an intervall slowage: you have to wait more than one second between throwing two grenades.

Deleted User
May 1, 2006, 4:37 pm
Well I do agree with making autos more non-artillery weapons like the rest of the weaps, but I am a bit worried about the semi-autos over-taking the autos in general combat because there is much more tapping needed with the loss of accuacy.

May 1, 2006, 8:39 pm
no, binks there for a reason.. autos already are dominant in the clan scene and league play go practice more.

Deleted User
May 1, 2006, 11:00 pm
I'm fine with my auto skill thank you very much. All i'm saying is that I don?t think autos should become worse weapons in general combat just so that people don?t do lame base-spraying.

May 1, 2006, 11:23 pm
I like alot of the changes, but I really dont like the really slow deagle rate of fire...Perhaps Speed up just a little?

May 2, 2006, 9:02 am
Thanks demonic, as for the deagles i've adapted 4 times now i'm happy doing it again.

Deleted User
May 2, 2006, 5:07 pm
SDFilm, don't be selfish.

Deleted User
May 2, 2006, 6:57 pm
I just want to make it clear that autos should still be balanced with the rest of the weapons when in normal combat so that the non-spraying* auto users don?t have to pay the price for it. If the base-spraying is really that unfair, then maybe add a larger penalty to long range shots.

*the lame kind of spraying that is, not just the defination for rapid fire.

Edit: Well I suppose that the increased inacuacy will help stop long range indirect spray, but I cant help thinking that it would make autos less effective either though bullets missing or being forced to fire slower because that base spraying tactic exists.

Maybe its just because im not used to it yet, like all that whining that happend on the relase of 1.3 that eventualy died down as people got used to the new setup.

May 4, 2006, 8:08 pm
Yea to me, the ak is very easy in RS because its like about 3-4 shots. If they weaken it, then less people will use the autos. If you strengthen it, then you would get more ppl to complain to lower it. So i would just leave the autos alone.

As for barret and m79, thats fine.

The big minigun shouldnt have to compltely fly you around. Lessen it.

All in all i hope that 1.1b doesnt get any complaints exactly like demoniac said. I think 1.1b will be here for along time, maybe till 1.4 comes out.

May 6, 2006, 10:36 am
What about Spas? Boosting has became something which is everyday thing in gathers and clanwars. Why Spas boosting is so acceptable, but Minigun surfing is not?

TWhat i mean is, reduce the spas boost aroin 10-20% to see the results.

May 6, 2006, 10:41 am
I wish I could, but I can't. There is no way I can reduce the boost power of weapons, since those values are not editable ( nor publical ).

shoover, the current balance is 1.2b. Good to know that I can rely on guys like you to build a better Soldat-tomorrow. ¬_¬

May 6, 2006, 2:14 pm
Why doesn't michael grant full controll of balance instead of just weapons.ini or what ever, it would get alot of problems solved quicker and save you having to do workarounds which are completley unessicary.

May 7, 2006, 9:53 am
Hmm. Well then decreasing the fire-rate helps a bit, but it really has to be SMALL decreasing, since it easily ruins the whole weapon. :s

Are there any new ideas for new mod file, or is 1.2b something like final?

May 7, 2006, 10:31 am
There are new ideas, and hopefully things will go more smoothly when we move to the new forum. Hopefully the new beta balance will be released then too, in the meanwhile, fiddle around with 1.2b.