Once upon a time I had one of my many talks with my swedish friend Mariachi , once a part of this community.
The disucssion was about another issue regarding the Israeli-Pala conflic, as most of the swedish population, there's much hate there towards the Israeli govrement and alot of compesion towards the palastinians, so the debate carried on and so forth and it went to extremes as his compasion started to puzzle me about how naive he is.

Then it turned somehow into a discussion about world wide nazism, and then he said something of this sort:
"Nazis shouldn't have rights at all"
I don't remember exactly, I could be wrong but I think he also said something about shooting all of them.. or placing them in jail with no trail or something, in short denying them the rights every other cidizen gets.

I was a bit shocked at that point, I mean wth.. the guy goes from one extreme of defending the palastinians and their human rights, to declairing he thinks nazis shouldn't have any rights.

Need I remind you, when I say nazis, I mean all these bold guys who have crosses on their arms and so on, modern nazis sort to speak..

So I asked him, how come you're going to that extreme, I mean after all, they're human beings, they have rights you can't just deny them their rights, democracy itself is based on equal rights.

And then (here comes the point) he said something that stayed with me 'till this day and still remains as something to think about rather then something I agree with.

"Someone who doesnt respect and follow the principles of democracy, shouldn't be allowed to enjoy its benefits"


Now there's a huge paradox in that sentence, however it makes so much sense to me at the same time...

I don't know, I'm still thinking about it :)
what do you think?

quit making topics

puff, topic ruined.. sigh...

It was ruined the moment you posted it in Soldat Forums.

 Quote:Originally posted by Ok
I was a bit shocked at that point, I mean wth.. the guy goes from one extreme of defending the palastinians and their human rights, to declairing he thinks nazis shouldn't have any rights.


Do you even realize what you wrote here? If not, give it some thought, then come back and only then start talking about "huge paradoxes"...

Your friend is right though. Nazis shouldn't have any rights.

They do make some good music though.

its getting beyond annoying.
Ok, YOU ARE THE REASON for people to hate the israeli government!
YOU are the reason that every muslim in the world wants to nuke israel!
YOU'RE the main problem between the pala-israelies!
YOU ARE the cause to all of our problems!
YOU'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE AIR POLLUTION ALLOVER THE GLOBE!!

WHEN YOU MASTURBATE, JEWS DIE!

Ok, it is impossible to start any sort of logical or even mildly intelligent topic/discussion on these forums nowadays. I thought you would atleast know that by now. I would suggest some other forums, too many idiots here.

Anyhow, ill reply to the topic while im at it. I disagree with that quote. When you say freedom of speech, democracy, rights, equalities, all this stuff boils down to everyone being able to think however they want to. If someone feels that democracy sucks, they should have the right to express thier views, because democracy allows them to have these different views or opinions. Basically, democracy protects every individual, even those with views against democracy itself.

 Quote:Originally posted by Tha Doggfather Quote:Originally posted by Ok
I was a bit shocked at that point, I mean wth.. the guy goes from one extreme of defending the palastinians and their human rights, to declairing he thinks nazis shouldn't have any rights.


Do you even realize what you wrote here? If not, give it some thought, then come back and only then start talking about "huge paradoxes"...


Nah..
I can see where you coming from and all...
But your assumptions comes from the prejudice of considering the palastinians and modern nazis as ppl who have no rights, while personaly I think they do (how's that for a paradox? or do you still dont get it?)

I also liked how you completly ignored the other part of the thread, I mean atleast be able to be usefull while you rattle things around..

 Quote:Originally posted by PoopOk, it is impossible to start any sort of logical or even mildly intelligent topic/discussion on these forums nowadays. I thought you would atleast know that by now. I would suggest some other forums, too many idiots here.


Well my friend I didn't expect to get anything from here.
This forum have been for more then a year now, just an interesting refference to some friends of mine from another forum.
I even got 2 of them to to post here once or twice and check for themselves.
Some of my topics are even made by someone else from that forum who wanted to comment inorder to check something.


Every topic of this nature I write there and here and we watch the difference of how it is accepted.
If you want I would be happy to share our discussions with you :) its quite interesting its like an Internet social experiment with hundred of little kids, teenagers and even some older guys in your disposal.

I'll tell you what goes wrong in most cases here.
Imagine a garden, you plant it, it grows to something beautifull and you want to see butterflies flying around , but allas a stupid cow came along and took a dumb on your garden and now it attracts nothing but hungry flies.

Its just a question of who writes the first replies , it will either encourage other idiots to post, or encourage others to...
too many cows and sheeps in this place, what can I say...

 Quote:Originally posted by PoopOk, it is impossible to start any sort of logical or even mildly intelligent topic/discussion on these forums nowadays. I thought you would atleast know that by now. I would suggest some other forums, too many idiots here.

I have counter measures for Ok's threads on TNL forums. Mainly, let them go on for a few posts then lock. Seems to work :D

I smell kosher!

 Quote:Originally posted by flab Quote:Originally posted by PoopOk, it is impossible to start any sort of logical or even mildly intelligent topic/discussion on these forums nowadays. I thought you would atleast know that by now. I would suggest some other forums, too many idiots here.

I have counter measures for Ok's threads on TNL forums. Mainly, let them go on for a few posts then lock. Seems to work :D


yeah thats why he seems to be coming to this forum now to post the topics :P, but this is the worst place possible.

I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Actually this is not the wrost, TNL is much wrose, even when there's an admin to lock them when they turn to shiat, it just happens so fast there...

Untill recenelty I always posted in both places, but the comments there are just plain boring and not usefull for any use, not even as a comparison.

Atleast here you get a veriety of posters.

I gotta say I'm quite surprised, I was expecting some ppl to present some hostile remarks, that would atleast lead to a discussion about the actual matter, this is defenitly a new low :)

 Quote:Originally posted by PoopOk, it is impossible to start any sort of logical or even mildly intelligent topic/discussion on these forums nowadays. I thought you would atleast know that by now. I would suggest some other forums, too many idiots here.

Anyhow, ill reply to the topic while im at it. I disagree with that quote. When you say freedom of speech, democracy, rights, equalities, all this stuff boils down to everyone being able to think however they want to. If someone feels that democracy sucks, they should have the right to express thier views, because democracy allows them to have these different views or opinions. Basically, democracy protects every individual, even those with views against democracy itself.



I just noticed you edited it ^_^

I know what you mean, which is why I asked him how come, I mean they do have rights...
But I dunno something makes sense there, its a bit dangerous, but the problem with democracy is that it can ruin itself by giving power to someone that will eliminate her one day.

I'm not saying that it goes along with the rules of democracy, it sure as hell don't, which is why there's a paradox there..
Basicly democracy is just taking a chance, hoping for the best and relying on the ppl's good heart and judgment.
Very risky when there are groups like the nazis roaming free..

 Quote:Originally posted by papasurf31WHEN YOU MASTURBATE, JEWS DIE!
WHEN KITTEN MASTURBATE, GOD KILL YOU.

...no idea why I wrote that in Soviet Russia grammar.

Well basicly, the nazis should just be in jail? I dont understand these things as much as you do, but dont nazis 'hate' other races just because of their differences in religion and the way they look?

Cuz, if they do, then theyre the ones to blame who dont make the lives of other people peaceful. The other people arent doing anything wrong?

Though sometimes myself, i feel like I dont like people from the Middle East, just because some believe in terrorism.. . I know some people say that they just do it because they want to make a hard impact? But it only makes me ticked off more that they do it everyday and kill more of their own people? Are people learning anything from this?

Ok, Im done writing, anyways... I like your posts Ok =]

Ok, I'm not even going to start argueing about the whole palestine-israeli issue, that's why I just picked out that one sentence, and judging by your reply to my post, you don't get my point.

And it's not me who "rattles things around" as you put it, it's you who just throws together a couple of random thoughts, without giving any argumentation. I'm not trying to be useful, I don't plan to partake in this duscussion, simply because I have found it impossible to discuss the issue with an israeli and/or jew (guess it would be the same in case with a palestine, but I haven't had the opportunity yet).

At any rate, I try to respect your point of view by giving you the opportunity to dicuss it in this topic, I already deleted some spam, I don't plan on doing so again. Every person who spams after my post gets a warning. These sorts of topics (attempts at discussions) are too rare in the lounge (and in this forum for that matter) for idiots to spam in it.

Wasnt he asking for a discussion on this? He was never telling people, 'haha, spam here!' its not his fault. Also, why wouldnt you talk to him, hese probably someone who knows more about these types of topics then any white/hispanic or black guy? asians too. I think people just need a new pinch to remind them about warnings to stupid posts. If you dont like the post, then dont respond. But you can always come in to warn for spam =]

btw, I still see spam here, that could be warned. for example, "masturbation, killing jews".

Oh god...
You got it all wrong this is NOT a pala-israeli discussion, it has nothing to do with jews vs nazis.
Its a discussion about democracy and those who oppose it, and how should they be viewed through the eyes of democracy.

The pala-israeli issue is just a discussion me and Mariachi had that somehow lead to a discussion about nazis and democracy, just a background story that's all it was.

You deleted spam? holy crap, if the thread looks like this AFTER you deleted, I really don't wanna see what it would have looked liked if you hadn't.

 Quote:Originally posted by DrivenUnder
Ok, Im done writing, anyways... I like your posts Ok =]


I would be carefull with those statments, ppl have been know to get shot for saying stuff like that in these forums ;)

Eh, I could careless ;]

Some moderator already deleted my avatar, it was just a image with pretty colors. Probs got jealous :\

Ok, when you get into an arguement about israeli-pala shiet why don't you just do it my way;
state the facts - WE got the country as of now, THEY don't. the situation won't change untill Iran makes a move, then the whole mess will begin.

when you're trying to explain them the situation and discuss it in mature ways, there will always be a jackass that will bust in and act childish (e.g YOU JEWS ARE KILLERS!!! YOU WAKE UP IN THE MORNING WITH YOUR ROCKET LAUNCHERS AND START TO BOMB SOME ARABS!!!), m00 used to do that pretty often.
while some others will still argue in a mature way with you, but the problem is they will make up facts (or burrow made up ones from CNN etc) that don't exist.

the only thing i've learned from this kind of arguements is that there are only 1 kind of people to argue about this, and its people who have live\lived here (lefties). atleast they make some valid points.

 Quote:Originally posted by OkOh god...
You got it all wrong this is NOT a pala-israeli discussion, it has nothing to do with jews vs nazis.
Its a discussion about democracy and those who oppose it, and how should they be viewed through the eyes of democracy.

The pala-israeli issue is just a discussion me and Mariachi had that somehow lead to a discussion about nazis and democracy, just a background story that's all it was.



Superkill, if your reffering to my post, I used my own opinions. Also, thats why we should give warnings out? Thats what theyre in this forum for, to warn idiots like so. This is silly, hes only talking about democracy, and who should benefit from it or not? Read it, and if you dont like it then theres always the back button.

what? lol, why do you think i was reffering to your post?
i was referring to past arguements that went on for 7 pages.

STOP IT!!!!
this isn't a discussion about the damn israeli-pala issue!
OMFG!
I merly said the words "Israeli-pala discussion" and that's it... everything else is ignored <_<

BAH!!!

And trust me SK, I know, I never had and never will start a discussion in this forum for the purpose of actually sattling someting, everything done in the past was just to satisfy my curiousity.

And btw, that feeling is mutual for us from the rest of the world:

 Quote:Originally posted by Tha Doggfather I don't plan to partake in this duscussion, simply because I have found it impossible to discuss the issue with an israeli and/or jew (guess it would be the same in case with a palestine, but I haven't had the opportunity yet).


Its like man and women, no one will never understand each other unless they'll be the other for a period of time :)

Actually its just like this case...
I never mentioned once anything about this being a discussion abotu israeli-pala issue..
It was just there as a some background fact ...
And yet look at how it developed to 2 ppl answering to something that wasn't even discussed..

I asked you "do you like eating chicken at noon??"
And you answered "The time is 16:00 sir"

Aww, I feel bad that Ok is misunderstood :P

"Someone who doesnt respect and follow the principles of democracy, shouldn't be allowed to enjoy its benefits"

I agree. They should have democracy forced upon them. Spot the contradiction now* :P

On a more serious note, I look at countries like Iraq and Afganistan and always think to myself 'you can't make the uncivilised civilised.' Why should we bother trying? Let them blow each other up with car bombs because Allah told them to...

But to me that's not right, I may think that, but morally it just aint cricket. I feel, as the most advanced nations, we have the right to lead them in the right direction. To show them what can be done with democracy and political freedoms. Some might point to China and say what they have achieved without democracy, but they still have some of the highest wage inequality and some of the most diverse standard of living in the world. Some could even point to Afghanistan in the 70s and show how badly it can turn out, which incedently I have no response to :P

I think those pro-democracy (if there are any) in Iraq/Afghanistan shouldn't expect things to turn around at the click of fingers. Things like this take 30/40/50 years before you economically advance. However, it takes alot longer if you have people resisting like they do.

To go back to the original point, that kind of happens in the civilised world doesn't it? Those that break the rules of democratic society end up in jail with little freedom. Me personally though, I think that we should set an example to those that don't respect democracy and continue to let them choose how to live within society. However, once it starts impeeding on others we have the authority to intervene and put a throw a spanner in the works.

(*Obviously this was tongue in cheek :P)

Why throw them into jail?
Have they done something? just because they don't follow the rules of democracy doesnt mean they don't follow the low.
Here comes the problem, should we stop giving them the benefits of democracy because they refuse to send their kids to a school that has black kids or jewish kid since they see them as lower beings?

Imagine if things would be upside down, imagine that the free world will decide to get rid of the bad "seeds" those seed for the free world are exactly those nazi supporters, and terrorists , anyone who declairs war on democracy!

As a matter of fact, that's exactly what is being said in that sentence.
"Someone who doesnt follow and respects the rules of democracy, shouldn't be allowed to enjoy its benefits"

The rules of democracy are equal rights, but if you don't respect and follow that, by giving it to others , you don't get to enjoy it yourself, which means you don't get equal rights.

Now you must be thinking, but then its not democracy because not EVERYONE gets equal rights.

But then again, does a criminal gets equal rights? no, he lost them when he preformed the crime.

So eventualy we come down to this:
Should resistance to democracy be considered as a crime?
Lots of little sub titles for that quesion, and there is no easy answer, for me there is no answer at all, I have no idea..

I didn't quite form an opinion about it, and I think that's exactly the problem of democracy, its not perfect, its far from it, too many holes it, but atm its the best thing we got.

But that sentence, oh man!, its like an easy escape to do what most of us want to do, and that's just beating the crap out of those who want to ruin our peacfull lives and make them go away once and for all.

By that I meant rapists, murderers etc... not just people who don't believe in democracy :) Exactly as you said, criminals.

Resistance to democracy is not a crime. However if it leads to the killings of innocent people or a form of terrorism it is (in my eyes at least).

For once I think I agree with you...

Actualy you've agreed with me many times in the past :)
You just didn't know you agreed with "Ok" you thought it was someone else, but we won't get into that right now ^_^

Now as of agreeing with me, I didn't quite state any opinion, its all logical analyzing, so agreeing with me is kinda.. well doesnt make sense.
Its a tough question, with no actual answer, which is why the world prefers democracy as it is , with all its flaws.

Btw the whole world is "pissed" at the americans and the americans are pissed at their president, because they didn't ACTUALLY find the reason for the attack.
That act, (which I'm sure was based on the preaquired knowledge that iraq has nothing close to nuclear weapons) was an act that follows the principles of that sentence:
"If you don't follow the rules of democracy (which iraq never did) you won't enjoy its benefits"
Which is why Iraq got "raped"

So in my opinion someone already decided to act upon that saying that the swedish peace lover told me, and then that same swedish guy condemed that act (which is based on his own idioligy) ^_^
Oh well...its all theory , who knows :)

I'm sure it's past leader liked to think it was a democracy, I mean Saddam did get 99% of the vote in the last election... (the other 1% were slaughtered) :)

Yuh, and you really think 99% really want him? just like the palastinians all really do want the HAMAS.

Those are the results of those who abuse democratic rules to do horrible things.
Actualy that's a great example! how self declaired murderes went up to power through democracy, that's a great situation where they should have been denied the benefits of democracy since they killed in the name of that war on democracy.

Nope, about 1% wanted him, I agree :)

I know nothing of this subject, but I agree with Ok and hope he doesn't hate me.

<3 Ok

I only hate Majors, are you a Major???? HA HA?????
*waves fist*