It's since 1.05b that I hear people complaining about one-shot killings. M79 was nerfed over and over, and now is a fairly balanced weapon, wich requires a good amount of pratice to be mastered: in a DM would result a useless weapon if you aren't expert enough in its use, but anyone seems to underestimate the raw power of the M79 in a CTF map.

As a matter of fact (and I've seen lot of people confirming this) a whole Barret/M79-armed team would dominate a CTF map without effort, crushing enemy opposition and scoring points without fear (nor effort).

Also it's overly known how annoying is dying 'cause a n00b simply walked upon you while firing a m79 and then killing you, whence you shoot him whit tons of bullet of your (underpowered IMHO) AK74/Steyr/MP5. You jump, dodge, run, shoot, dodge again, jet, dodge, hit him a lot of times then... *Blam* You're dead. It's truly annoying, we all know that.

So my idea is: what if the m79 will not be a one-shot-one-kill weapon anymore? What if it throws REAL grenades, instead of those overly damaging slugs? A grenade most of the time won't kill a player with a single shot, but it's very damaging (from 1/2 to 3/4 of the health bar), will knock you back (thus making difficult to dodge/shoot back), and will damage a quite large area with his splash damage.

If the m79 shoot would be more similar to a grenade (less damage, more knockback, larger area of effect), it will became a much more "strategic" weapon. It would be perfect for overcrowded areas, but less cheesy (cheese = overpowered weapon) in one-to-one combat. Also the larger AoE would mean that you cannot shoot a foe wich is too near to you, as with a grenade, so it would require an expert hand to be used effectively, no more "n00b weapon".

What do you think of this?


---Sorry 4 my bad english---

I think your english is perfect, and so is the idea.
Three thumbs up! [IMAGE]

bah, i think its too dramatic change, i mean, m79 is working on the same 'system' for like a year (since 1.1.0 if i'm not mistaken) and.. its too big change. LOTS of ppl wont agree with the idea, and i'm one of them.
if it helps, your english is still good ;)

nah bye

no.

'Also it's overly known how annoying is dying 'cause a n00b simply walked upon you while firing a m79 and then killing you, whence you shoot him whit tons of bullet of your (underpowered IMHO) AK74/Steyr/MP5.'

joking right?It only takes 6 ak74 bullets to kill someone.

'Statistics:
Bullet start speed = 20
Bullet start power = 25.5
Bullets/Sec. = 6
Reloading = 2.5 sec.
Ammuniton = 40'

you call that underpowered?

So let's see, M79 nerfed....again? How about you go outside and play hide and go .... yourself.....sigh
How about you ppl STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THE GOD DAMN WEAPONS AND START TO LEARN THAT THEY ARE BALANCED, not my fricking fault you cant move right to evade, or think right....argh.....so sick of this nerfing threads...

amehn to that.

No offence but that is a terrible idea...

quote:Originally posted by Outcast

How about you ppl STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THE GOD DAMN WEAPONS AND START TO LEARN THAT THEY ARE BALANCED, not my fricking fault you cant move right to evade, or think right....argh.....so sick of this nerfing threads...



Yes, and it's since 1.05b (and even before...) that people say that "weapons are good as they are". Surely it's obvious that in a game there will even be something cheesy, and it's similarly obvious that someone wants the "easy way" to play the game.
Like the WW Barb in Classic Diablo II, or the old Skald of 1.45 DAoC, or the Ultima Online's Tank-Mage. Saying that "all weapons are balanced" is like saying "some people are equal". Yes, surely, but some people are more equal than others.

Just give a look to a normal CTF game. After a couple of games, one or two people starts to use m79. And they start to rock, even if they are n00bs. Is a matter of time, hence the vast majority of the players start to use m79. Then it becames a m79-only game (otherwise you lose and suck).

This wouldn't happen in a deathmatch: as I said, now the m79 is a balanced weap in a DM.
About machine-guns: while the AK74 is a very good weapon in CTF/Infiltration games (even in teammatch is useful), is an underpowered weapon in DM, even if not as useless as the MP5 or the Steyr.
Ever seen anyone using a Steyr in DM? I mean... ever seen anyone WHO WINS in a DM using a Steyr?

Anyway, if someone has arguments like "I think your idea couldn't work because..." we can happily talk about it. Otherwise comments like "it sucks, bye", are absolutely useless, like it's useless the brain of the people behind this type of answers.

Just my 2 cents.
And sorry again about my bad english.

No way should the M79 be nerfed. People should try to actually gain some skill to really give meaning to the word "expert" (which they all like to see themselves as), fit the game and get used to its weapons, because really, skill is about mastering one thing, seems that people on the forums have mastered the ability to bitch about the game.

Alot of people want alot of things to change, all pulling the advantage over to their side, often 2 suggestions tottaly conflict so you cant have 1 and have the other at the same time.

And because of that the gameplay in weapons shouldnt be changed (apart from 1 or 2 imbalances and appendixes). The game was made to be played, so play it, quit trying to change everything you dont like because you cant get over it, Soldat wasnt made to fit EVERYONE's will. And that goes for everyone that puts these "nerf -insert weapon here-" threads. Or the Prone timer (FFS).

quote:Originally posted by Daimyo
quote:Originally posted by Outcast

How about you ppl STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THE GOD DAMN WEAPONS AND START TO LEARN THAT THEY ARE BALANCED, not my fricking fault you cant move right to evade, or think right....argh.....so sick of this nerfing threads...



Yes, and it's since 1.05b (and even before...) that people say that "weapons are good as they are". Surely it's obvious that in a game there will even be something cheesy, and it's similarly obvious that someone wants the "easy way" to play the game.
Like the WW Barb in Classic Diablo II, or the old Skald of 1.45 DAoC, or the Ultima Online's Tank-Mage. Saying that "all weapons are balanced" is like saying "some people are equal". Yes, surely, but some people are more equal than others.

Just give a look to a normal CTF game. After a couple of games, one or two people starts to use m79. And they start to rock, even if they are n00bs. Is a matter of time, hence the vast majority of the players start to use m79. Then it becames a m79-only game (otherwise you lose and suck).

This wouldn't happen in a deathmatch: as I said, now the m79 is a balanced weap in a DM.
About machine-guns: while the AK74 is a very good weapon in CTF/Infiltration games (even in teammatch is useful), is an underpowered weapon in DM, even if not as useless as the MP5 or the Steyr.
Ever seen anyone using a Steyr in DM? I mean... ever seen anyone WHO WINS in a DM using a Steyr?

Anyway, if someone has arguments like "I think your idea couldn't work because..." we can happily talk about it. Otherwise comments like "it sucks, bye", are absolutely useless, like it's useless the brain of the people behind this type of answers.

Just my 2 cents.
And sorry again about my bad english.


I won lots of DM's with steyr, since STEYR is THE ownage. Faster then AK, if you can shoot, you kill, and you kill a lot. n00bs can use the m79 as much as they want, if you know how to play, they wont be any annoyance to you. I can show you, or any1 that wants, that every weapon has potential, IF YOU CAN USE IT. People that complain are people that can't use (insert weapon here)/play at all(in 95% of the cases). Some say n00bs with m79 just come to you and BLAST YOU! WOW! ITS YOUR FRICKING FAULT THAT THEY CAME TO YOU AND BLASTED THE [:-censored] OUTA YOU.

what outcast said above.

quote:Originally posted by Daimyo

Also it's overly known how annoying is dying 'cause a n00b simply walked upon you while firing a m79 and then killing you


correct me if i'm wrong, but if you just let someone walk up on you and kill you, wouldn't you be considered the noob?

heres an idea for new people that try and press theier [:-censored]ty ideas. DONT, simple as that because you are probly wrong and will never win a argument with one of these guys.

Simply. Every newb uses a machine gun at the start. MP5, AK74, Steyr, Minimi, whatever. Then, veterans (or your prefered term) would mostly choose Barret or M79 after their machine gun because it varies a lot and is a nice second weapon to use in, if you like, your Soldat 'career'. Then you get the unfortunate server where there is a team of newbs versus a team of veterans.

Its not the gun, its how you use it.

quote:Originally posted by sauron_the_deceiver


Its not the gun, its how you use it.

wow... that sounds wise..

he is a wise man...

I see much noobism here. I see also answers that do not match very mutch with the above argumentations. Beginning from the fact, that, surely I'm new of this forum, but I play soldat since 1.0.3, I wrote in the old forums, then stopped 'cause I was annoyed by single-minded idiots like those who say that "all works better as it is".

Luckyly who programs this game didn't give too much importance to those cheese-suckers, and instead tried to understand where the game mechanics were lacking, and where instead they worked well.
Still I do not see argumentation about how mine is a bad idea, I see only "all is fine as it is, m79 RULEZ i'm the best player in the world", up to demential sentences like the one who says thath mgs are for noobs, and that barret is for veterans... Oh my God, truly I'm ROTFL, try to kill someone with a MP5 mr. veteran, then try to kill someone with a m79. What a LOL...

I'm overly enough pissed of 12-y-old childish nerds that feel strong cause they win with a cheesy weapon since 1.0.3: I posted a suggestion, if you want to criticize, do it using your brain to think not to say only "I ROCK/You SUCK". And realize that most of the soldat players of the net find that one-shoot killing IS NOT FUN, maybe, it's TOO EASY to be fun more than half an hour. If you like only to win, go play with the bots.

WELL ...................................................... maybe there should be a gamy type, after realistic : no-1-hit-kills or something... for the people who agree, and otherwise for peoplw who dis-agree?

dont nerf anything, go play outside now im done talking to you.

Me? or Mr. i think my english it bad but in fact its not? [:p]

o daimyo, its quite possible that maybe YOU cant use MG's well, but other people can, if you think the mp5 sucks then your weird, its not meant to be a frontal assault weapon, its used as a support weapon to weaken the enemies so that your buddies can finish them off because of its large spreadfire, if you think about it, a expert mp5 guy against a expert m79 guy will win every single time because if you have any dodging skills whatsoever the m79 is quite easy to dodge cuz its slow and they have to reload between each shot

quote:Originally posted by TheKnightoftheMare
Ban.

hehe
Dude ! AK skillmasta Vs. Skillmasta M79 = Tie or a win but 1 or 2 points 2 1 of them !

wha?

quote:Originally posted by Daimyo
I see much noobism here. I see also answers that do not match very mutch with the above argumentations. Beginning from the fact, that, surely I'm new of this forum, but I play soldat since 1.0.3, I wrote in the old forums, then stopped 'cause I was annoyed by single-minded idiots like those who say that "all works better as it is".

Luckyly who programs this game didn't give too much importance to those cheese-suckers, and instead tried to understand where the game mechanics were lacking, and where instead they worked well.
Still I do not see argumentation about how mine is a bad idea, I see only "all is fine as it is, m79 RULEZ i'm the best player in the world", up to demential sentences like the one who says thath mgs are for noobs, and that barret is for veterans... Oh my God, truly I'm ROTFL, try to kill someone with a MP5 mr. veteran, then try to kill someone with a m79. What a LOL...

I'm overly enough pissed of 12-y-old childish nerds that feel strong cause they win with a cheesy weapon since 1.0.3: I posted a suggestion, if you want to criticize, do it using your brain to think not to say only "I ROCK/You SUCK". And realize that most of the soldat players of the net find that one-shoot killing IS NOT FUN, maybe, it's TOO EASY to be fun more than half an hour. If you like only to win, go play with the bots.


So...your point? I told you the weapons are fine, and I aint calling you a n00b tho you are calling me one. And as i said, i can show you, that every weapon is usable since you obviusly dont beleave it.If they find it no fun, then why do most people use 1 shoot kill weps?
Every1 likes to win, it's a nice bonus to playing and...I dont play bots. Then about 1 shot weapons being easy...heh, well that's...not true. Why do good players get called cheaters a lot, if the 1 shot kill weapons are easy? Because the ones calling them that cant use them like that, and obviusly think it's not that easy. You obviusly dont like being owned with the m79 or sumthn, since you dont like it. I myself think the prone position should be taken away, but I ain't posting it and wanting it to be done, since Michal is making the game, and if he added by his will, he can remove it by his will, not mine. And why do you call a weapon a n00b weapon? there is no such thing, even the minigun can be used to an extent...The n00bs are the players, weapons are weapons. I think your just sick of them n00bs that come to you and blast you, and you think nerfing the m79 would do it. Let me tell you something, there's always been n00bs, there will always be n00bs, and you cant prevent that, you just have to live with it. Weapons are the far most balanced, that they ever were, not counting minigun here. You just gotta use them....PROPERLY(you still dont get that do you?).
Now that i had my little share of constructive criticism, you tell me why i am a n00b, why i am 12 years old and why i am single minded, and please give me and the rest some good reasons for what you wrote in your first post, since i dont see any yet.

Let's see this from another point of view.
I'm a very happy AK user. I'm very happy of this weapon. I "own" (as you are used to say) a lot with this weapon, and I have no problems at all when fighting against m79 users, nor vs Barret users. I know the basilar tactics to overcome those weapons with the 3 mgs, so I do not suffer nor I "suck" cause some noob sometime or the other comes to me and kills me in one shot. It happens, he could had killed me with every other weapon, even with the extremely-difficult-to-use Ruger, and, above all, who am I to state during a game who's the n00b and who isn't? Ok? I made myself clear?

We both agree about this. But there is a FACT. A couple of FACTS you cannot ignore.
The facts are: with an AK/MP5/Steyr/DE/Ruger/Spas you need fair amount of exercise and pratice to become lethal. You could become lethal even with a Chainsaw or with a knife. With a Barret/M79 you STILL need pratice to became almost invincible, and need almost NO PRATICE to be very very dangerous.
Try to be "dangerous" with an AK if you never used it. Try to be a problem to anyone if you never tried to use a Ruger. This is a FACT.

Try to play a CTF game vs a whole team armed with m79/barrets. *blam* score. *blam* score. *blam* score. You need double the efforts to score: they've the advantage. A big advantage. This means you cannot win? No, you can win, if your team is very good. But it's like the Zulu vs the English in the colonial wars of Africa of XIXth century. Still the Zulu won, but they fought spear vs cannons. Never happened that one CTF game suddenly changes in a barret/m79 game, where most of the players wield those two weapons? It is balanced? No. But it happens, no? Yes, it happens. This is another FACT.

TONS of people periodically post a topic "nerf m79/nerf barret". It annoys most player to be one-shooted. Barret is the cause of the so-hated spawn-killing, did anyone noticed that this is ANNOYING? A game should be fun. If a so big number of people are annoyed from something it means it don't work. This is another FACT.

We can nerf these weapons, yes, fer sure. Or we can change it to something DIFFERENT, wich could be equally FUN. I proposed something that could be FUN to be used, without annoying so much people. I didn't say (as most do, instead) "nerf this weapon 'cause I don't like it".
As I said, it's since Jan 2002 that I fight againist m79 users, I remember when m79 was TRULY an power-of-the-cheese weapon, I never found too problems anyway into finding new tactics to overcome their advantage. I find that's funny to fight a foe when underpowered, so for me it's no prob, but it's since that period that people complain (or whine...) about the annoying feature of those weapons.

At last, I'm happy that you can debate with me in a civilized way. We can talk, and criticize each other, and that's fine. I apologize if you felt offended by my words, and I hope we could continue to argument furthermore without the need for being offensive towards (it's correct towards?) each other.



P.S. I'm Italian, and still I feel that my english isn't so good, but I'm happy you appreciate it, maybe you're overly generous ;)

quote:Originally posted by Daimyo

We both agree about this. But there is a FACT. A couple of FACTS you cannot ignore.
The facts are: with an AK/MP5/Steyr/DE/Ruger/Spas you need fair amount of exercise and pratice to become lethal. You could become lethal even with a Chainsaw or with a knife. With a Barret/M79 you STILL need pratice to became almost invincible, and need almost NO PRATICE to be very very dangerous.
Try to be "dangerous" with an AK if you never used it. Try to be a problem to anyone if you never tried to use a Ruger. This is a FACT.
[/br]


AK/MP5/Aug is point, press fire, hold fire and move cursor weapon, it shoots the same no matter how you move or stand etc. I would say that is easy.
The bad side is they requires multiple shots to kill.

The barret kills in one this, and shoots exactly where you point if you crouch, and shoots kind of weird when proned, and really weird when in air. So the aiming is a lot harder, but still, it has the 1 shot kill advantage. So it equalls if you ask me.

The m79, shoots the same from all positions, kills in one shot, but it's range sux bad, and it's projectile is slow. It equalls if you ask me again.

So i dont see the problem, it all depends to personal taste and abilities. IT IS Potentially easier to use them when you start, but you have to think of this, some just got it when they start, some just suck when they start, and people usually stay as they start.
If a man who is good starts playing, and chooses any weapon, hell be good with it, on the other hand, if a bad player chooses anything, he'll suck with it.... SO, yes it is easy to just point and click, but going beyond that is harder then getting good with a MG. It's the same in most shooter games. This is where this circle ends and all comes back to what its all about - the player.

quote:
TONS of people periodically post a topic "nerf m79/nerf barret". It annoys most player to be one-shooted. Barret is the cause of the so-hated spawn-killing, did anyone noticed that this is ANNOYING? A game should be fun. If a so big number of people are annoyed from something it means it don't work. This is another FACT.




Have you ever thought those are the people that dont use the barret, and dont like the barret. Most people use one-shoot-kill weapons, theyre the majority, they like to have the power to kill people in a single shot. It's more conveniant then having to shoot them several times i guess. I use the barret in CTF, and i do not spawn camp, not a lot anyway. And again it's back to the player. And btw, have you ever thought, some people get annoyed from being shot by automatic weapons? I myself hate when i get shot with an auto and it repels me, cuz i wanna nade the sucker but since am going backwards it wouldnt do much good throwing nades would it? But i dont mind being 1-shot-killed, i just accept it as a part of the game and it doesnt anger me. People will just have to live with that, just as i live with the repeling thingie. Every game has something we dont like, and for every human it's another thing.

I do support an option or gamemode, that would feature NO 1-hit-kill weapons, it would be great sometimes. But otherwise it should stay as it is. I hope weve come to a conclusion that human's are different, and each likes his own things, there will never be a game that every1 will like, so rather then triing to change the game, accept it's little things you dont like(in this case, but there are games that i dont like ANYTHING about :P), or go play another game that you like more.

Appology(?) accepted....you werent that far from my age anyway, I am 15 and proud of it. And even if i was 12, it doesnt mean i am stupid. I just dont like to write long mambo jambo like this but i made an exeption in this case. I like short and therall(?) "explanations".

Basides, [:-censored] grammar, as long as people understand what theyre reading, am not one of them "omg you cant write" dudes, unless i really hate you :P....besides...i wouldnt say you write bad english *shrugs* where did you get that from lol


PS - I consider m79 duels an art. It's a great mixture of psychology, prediction and skill. It's always fun and thrilling, but with m79 not being a 1 hit kill weapon anymore, it would loose all of its charm.

All of your weapon comparisons are not made correctly here, you cant simply go and judge enything by the way you see it on pub games, pub games are fast, they just go, you fight and die on the way. People dont fight with too much caution on pub games, and thus get killed faster. You have to know how to counter well, and in the chaos of a public game this might be harder to do.

When you said that an AK master vs an M79 master would tie, I dissagree.

To fight each weapon you need different strategies to counter each of them. The M79's weakness is its range, the AK "skillmasta" should know that it would be very stupid to charge the M79er and enter his range. And the M79er should know that he has the killing speed advantage, The AK takes about 5 bullets, the M79 takes only one slug, and should charge the AK'er fast and blast him.

OK dude, you post a suggestion which would basically reduce the power of the gun to a useless level, but it won't be nerfed. EHH? Think about it: the entire point of the M79 is that it kills in one hit. THE ENTIRE POINT! So why do you think it necessary to make it just another ruger, only it would be a much, much worse ruger, considering that it would require ammo (nades), be a piece of crap in servers with low nades, and not be able to stand up to anything because of its low power. EHH?

Did I said that it requires grenades as ammo? Are you pulling my leg or what?
I said that is damage is SIMILAR to the grenades. And if you think that a gun that does damage to a very large area hitting two, maybe three people at once with his splash damage is comparable to a RUGER?
You never used a ruger did you?

As for the difference between public and clan fight: you're completely true. I'm thinking about joining some clan, to understand better how it works fighting in private servers, actually my only experience is that of the very messy public CTF servers, where you do not have the time to fight a m79 user when wielding an AK: you must rush to the flag, and run, that's all.

' extremely-difficult-to-use Ruger'


rotf.

Your avatar is a photo of yourself, isn't it?

it sure is.

Ah, ok. Now I understand.

When one of the people in an arguement starts throwing insults/insinuation of insults/enything not on topic and negative at the other person shows that hes losing. -Points at Daimyo- .

you people should just accept the fact that these weapons all have their good sides and bad sides. why are you posting suggestions to nerf anything? if your enemy likes to use an m79, then either use an m79 of your own, or, if you think your good enough, use YOUR best weapon to kill him. think about it, these people who use barret/m79 are basically risking their life on ONE shot. where an AK user has 40 shots to hit someone, if just SIX of those bullets hit the guy, he is dead, and unloading 6 bullets on your AK is loads faster then shooting one shot with the barret or even the m79

making an option to stop one shot kills is already in the game, just uncheck the m79 and barret before you make a server. I think m79s are too good, but as I already said, you can just make a server without them.

u having problems AGAINST the m79 ?!
whoa you suck bro

Damn straight I do, its my favorite weapon but the game would be better without it because its to good.....bro?

i think ideas like these whould be great for any other games except soldat the reason soldat was so great(and i use was as past pretence) is because it was simple and not complicated just a great game to fight it out and have fun, and now with all the new crap we are getting its making soldat more complicated thus taking away the part of soldat that was once godly.

my opinion

and as well as mine to snappy....

Why is m79 even in the game....it just doesnt belong. In my opinion......and why are you guys fighting!?. As talked about before guns have advantages in disadvantages...but in my opinion i dont see a "disadvantage" in the m79...can someone tell me what it is? I meen it has a quick reload time. Pretty Accurate.[xx(]

Disadvantage is the reload, and the slow bullet, and the god damn range.

lol m79 is too good
haha thats a good one

Well I guess its not supposed to be realistic or anything but....

I don't really see someone chunking a nade at you, it hitting you head on, and you surviving. Really the only thing thats wrong with the m79 and thw LAW, is the splash damage. The law only takes away about 1/10 of your HP if it doesn't hit you directly.. which makes it stupid.

Same for the m79. I think they both should have the splash damage of a nade, the nade does farely good damage, and knocks the player(s) back a little bit.

(Note: I'm not saying they should both have the actual damage of the nade, for those who don't really read and/or just skim the posts. I'm saying it should have the splash damage/range.)

~Phil

It does have quite good splash damage, its ok.

I say it's your own fault if you cannot dodge the m79 slug. Sure, point-blank you dont have much of a chance, but if you know the correct tactics, m79ers are quite easy to take out.

You gotta use the weapon before you can learn how to dodge it correctly. Before complaining about the balance, use each weapon and learn how they work, learn the timing, pros/cons of each... I used to get murdered by m79ers, but no longer! Muhahahaa!


ugh... ya...

the m79 is also hard to control at moving targets as it arcs.