There is a plethora of great programmers out in the soldat community and yet the one aspect of soldat that needs a massive reprogramming has gone completely unnoticed: those idiot bots who have so much trouble following a simple waypoint path that they frequently have siezures for no apparent reason.
How much fun would it be if you didn't have to experience the curse of an empty server? Where you didn't have to wait for good players to actually play because there were bots who could run around and use smart tactics just like a human?
You wouldn't ever have to deal with unbalanced teams because a bot would always be able to step in and dominate instead of acting like the mobile bullet shields that they are now.
So can we please, please have someone make bots that only need a few simple directions to be able to navigate around a map, and who can return fire while yelling "Die n00b!" and actually use the guns like they were meant to?
lol this is got to be the funniest thing i've read all day
Ehh, bots arent AI dude, i dont some of the things you suggested are possible, maybe it using random weapons that probably is, but it using tactics, ehh dont think so.
Before Counter-Strike went to Steam, there was a great set of bots called Pod-Bot.
Out of the box, they were pretty lame, but as you played maps with them, they learned, and developed tactics from the actions of the player. If you lie in wait one time and kill a few, the next time around, they'll throw a flashbang out and then rush in and spray fire at you.
Try out CS 1.5 and the Pod-Bots. You will be surprised at what they can do.
dear god use the search function
I guess it's just me, but I always see you guys yelling at people for not using the search function so I always use it, but it never comes up with what I'm looking for.
then look at that forum's recent history. in the bot forum, you just have to look back on the first page, and there's gunno be something about how weak the bots are >:(
Ya know.. if the programming of the bots was simpler ya might be able to tell them to do more intelligent things... instead of making lines to the way points... why not just give the way point numbers and then program the bot to figure out a way to get to it?
but then that would complicate things....
But at least giving the bots the ability to figure out on their own how to get to a way point would make bot waypoints a lot easier to program in the map... and possibly... dare a say.. a waypoint less bot that will actively search for you?
Now THAT would be cool.
Lol, "Die n00b!"
Haha. So true.
But yeah, good idea. I actually want a challenge when I fight bots in my server. Impossible mode isnt even funny anymore.
I actually asked about the bots in the beta forums during the testing...
quote:Originally posted by Michal Markinkowski Some day maybe I'll teach them how to throw a knife. I would like them to be totally scripted so people could write their own bots but I don't have time for that now.
I hope something happens, but that's up to Michal.
quote:Originally posted by Lapis LazuliTry out CS 1.5 and the Pod-Bots. You will be surprised at what they can do.
God, they were as good as some players. Kinda lacked the fun you got when you played online, though. Good if you don't want any whining around.
keep asking him about bots in beta, cuz me really wants improvement. open bot source! ill learn whatever language they qwere written in just to be able to make em good!
I have coded some 3D bots once, that where like the Pod-Bot but less advanced. They didn't do the whole flashbang thing but they anticipated your camping spots and figured out your favorite weapon and exploited its weakness (for instance, if you use the sniper rifle alot, they rush and stay close range to you).
Just ask if you need help with coding...
Improving the Bot AI at the moment would be fairly easy. They already follow a waypointed set of instructions. Now all you have to do is include a bit more functionality.
Match 1: The player camps atop a hill and sprays fire down at the bot below. The bot is killed, and a record of how he was killed is recorded. (This is done by examining the players locale and weapon. In this case, the player was: 1. Atop the hill, and 2. Spraying bullets)
Match 2: Same example. The player is camping atop a hill and spraying fire down below. This time, however, the bot anticipated the player's attack, and seeing as how he was atop the hill, he could either 1. Snipe the player, or 2. Use a LAW to blast him off, or, provided there are waypoints for it, 3. Jet up and come down onto the player/find an alternate path.
I like this idea. It'll be cool because I have Dial-Up and I can play single player with strong opponents and maybe learn a thing or 2.
I'm all about gving the bots more things to do (e.g. anticipating attacks, throwing knives, etv), but a large part to a lot of the problems people have with the bots on maps is in part just due to the waypointing. Maybe I'm just staying the obvious here, but you can't leaving anything to chance when you're waypointing for the bots...they do what they're told pretty well if you can keep them in line.
While I realize that waypoints alone can't do all of the things mentioned in past posts, they can do a lot to make a boring map with bots much more playable and challenging. Waypointing as is is already very easy, it just takes practice to get a feel for what setups of waypoints make the bots do certain things and do them efficiently. However, regardless of this, some sense of tactics or strategy would be a most welcome addition.
Adding tactical and intelligent AI code would be awesome, and I wouldn't imagine too hard to do. Also having weapon specific tactics would be very good, such as staying back to cover with the sniper, or choosing marrow paths with the shotgun.
I agree totally with you Geo. My quam with waypoints though is the effort in making them. On a large map that's anything but perfectly flat, it takes forever to get the waypoints right. And then you've got both teams to waypoint for, and testing isn't a quick process.
Maybe adding some more functions to a map maker could help with this, but what I'd much rather see is a form of automatic guidance for the bots, so that if they realise they are not getting anywhere with the waypoints, they go into an override mode and try to navigate the map themselves. Perhaps waypoints could have a property to prevent the bots doing this if you knew they were perfect and you didn't want them straying.
Coding automatic navigation would probly be pretty hard, but I think it would be worth a try.