I think it's the best map ever... It's so popular, it deserves to be a default map. You have heard about it, right Michal?

Maya2, Lanubya, ctf_Bridge, and some other custom maps are popular aswell :p

And yes, we need a replacement for Chernobyl, Equinox, Crashed and maybe Dropdown. Nuubia would be an excellent replacement for Dropdown.

Take out ctf_Crashed for ctf_Nuubia.

I like Chernobyl,Equinox,Crashed, and Dropdown :\ I also like Nuubia :)

I don't like that factory map and the super dark map, maybe take those out and put all that maps grand_diablo mentioned?

I personally only despise equinox.

But none of this matters. It's up to the server to decide maps. The more maps that come with Soldat however, the better. Even crap ones.

i must say that i never wanted U13 to be come a custom map server, but nuubia is there to stay :P

As much as I would like to see nuubia a default map, I'd have to say one thing: let's not force everything.. Michal's game, Michal's choices ;)

Here you go Michal, if you haven't already got it:

[IMAGE]

Download

just as info, ive pmed michal about the issue that except for Maya all other new default maps are rarely played (maybe sometimes Dropdown when a CW needs to be extended), and linked him to the "TOP MAPS" thread in the New Maps section (which i need to update with a new voting someday *whistles*), and he agreed on that. So I don't guess were forcing him, Id call it reminding :p

Still, bugfixing has more prio atm, yet replacing maps by others should be an easy task that can be done before the final is about to be released.

It is more up to the leagues and servers to make maps popular now that there is auto download. Though nuubia would fit in nicely.

Sure I can add it. I don't think it is necessary to replace maps, I can just add more.
Where can I get the latest version?

quote:Originally posted by StalkyDownload


You don't read my posts Michal :(

He only reads the posts of important people like me .. *cough*

Quit lying, we know you're paying him a monthly fee so he tells you what he wants to implement, and you post a topic about it ¬_¬

quote:Originally posted by KnOtHe only reads the posts of important people like me .. *cough*


/me high fives kn0t

Well, I think its necessary to replace maps. I dont think we need a 20 map default mappool, actually gameplay should focus on some really good maps + a map being official should be something special, otherwise contests like the one currently running are somehow losing their sense. And I don't think that maps which proofed themselves as very buggy and/or just average (Equinox, Chernobyl) should still have the adjective "official", because its lowering the value of this attribute.

Maya and maybe Dropdown are the only new additions from 1.2.1 that became somewhat popular and played. i cant remember that Equinox (damn buggy, too open), Crashed (simply too big, spawnpoint abuse and below average looks) or Chernobyl (looks quite nice, but not the best gameplay) were played in a CW in the last months, while Maya is played quite often and Dropdown is at least used as last-chance maps in very long CWs.

I prefer quality to mass and I want the attribute "official map" to keep its value, please don't ruin it expanding the mappool without removing maps that don't fit in :)


PS: Please keep in mind that this is my subjective point of view. How I rated especially Equi, Crashed and Cherno is based on playing on theses maps plus personal experience and the fact that those three are almost never played.

I think Originality and Variety should be key to what maps are selected if maps are replaced. I don't think any maps should be replaced, because; the more the merrier. Even if they are rarely played, each map hardly adds any size to the Soldat client download and just gives people more to choose from.

If any maps were replaced I would only choose Maya (Too much like the other maps) and DropDown (It's like Death and Kampf mixed together) to be replaced, not Crashed, Chernobyl or Equinox. Crashed is one of the few large maps to play, it has a few design flaws but if it ever gets to be too serious, you can just iron them out.

Chernobyl and Equinox I think are very good maps and there is no reason for them to be removed. In addition to being well designed, they also have a great atmosphere and the only bad thing I have to say about them is that there are a few bugs and people always mini-surf in it. They are also a bit buggy, but there is nothing that can't be fixed.

I also prefer quality to mass, and there are several types of quality and I think keeping a diverse selection of maps is a very important thing to Soldat.

Would you mind walking me through your personal experience, grand_diablo? Maybe your personal experience can help contribute to fixing design flaws or bugs that have prevented people from playing them? Chernobyl and Equinox have always been on my CTF server rotation, and on the (Admittedly few) CTF servers that I play on, they are also both there.

P.S. It should also be noted that I am strongly against any maps being replaced or removed from the Soldat download.


Edit: Ok, will expand on this a bit.
I don't think Maya is a bad map (DropDown is another story), but if I had to choose between Maya and Equinox/Chernobyl/Crashed, I would choose the second. I think Variety in maps is very important.

I don't understand why you would want to remove a map because it is under played and a little buggy. With that reasoning, then I would think that Realistic Mode should be removed too.

I dont think you can transfer the argument from maps to modes :)

The thing is: there are other large maps, which have better gameplay and fewer bugs than Crashed etc. None of them is really a bad map, but most of them arent above average looking at the gameplay. Sure they are unique which is a good thing, but a map should offer more than being unique. Seeing Nuubia, there are other fast paced maps and some of them look even better, and generally Nuubia looks "just" above average. Yet it has good gameplay, which makes it popular, even more popular than similar constructed maps that look better.

The whole point of this is not, to push my maps into the game, I just stated Lanubya and Maya2 as example, cause they are often played on public. And there are lots of other great custom maps which are played publicly quite often and might deserve it even more. How else do you want to grade the quality of a map's gameplay if not by its popularity? 08/15 maps are soon replaced on publics these days.
It doesnt matter to me how big they are, as you mentioned, maps hardly increase the dl size. The mappool growing bigger isnt the main problem either, as it still will have an adequate size in 1.2.2. But while extending it with good custom maps, those unplayed (and by most players unliked) maps should be filtered out, or looking at Equinox, at least fixed. Variety for sure is important, but there are unique high-quality maps aswell, where we dont bounce on every second poly as on Equinox - so why not replace at least Equ/Crashed by better ones of the same style?

And about Maya: It may not LOOK unique, but with its central middle part, it has unique gameplay (imo)

Well, ive argued enough for my part, Ill wait for and accept Michal's final word :)

Well I think looks add to gameplay, I have rarely played a bad game on Crashed or Equinox. I think a map should look good and play good, and I strongly believe that all the maps added in 1.2.1 accomplished that (Err..actually, not invasion, I didn't like invasion.) I sometimes like maps that look better over maps that play better, and I also love diversity in the maps I play. Some people prefer different kinds of maps just like people prefer different genres of music, it can be argued tons, but nobody will ever change their opinion, which is why I don't think any of the maps that have been added should ever be removed. You would upset no one by keeping the maps there, but you will upset plenty of people who enjoyed the maps if you remove them.

quote:why not replace at least Equ/Crashed by better ones of the same style?
Because from what I've seen, Equinox and Crashed are both unique maps and there are very few of the same style. Instead of removing a map and totally wasting the work and creativity that has been put into it, it should simply be fixed or repaired. Since the beginning of the Soldat, the original maps have also been slowly ironed out throughout the versions.

Well... I am not to fond of Maya or Nuubia myself :P I also have to say that Equinox, Crashed, and Chernobyl are some of my favourite maps and should be kept as default maps. To me they offer a completly different gameplay expierience than the other maps as well as offering unique visuals. Save Equinox, Crashed, and Chernobyl! :P

If theyre kept, at least Equinox should be fixed (as it is _severely_ bouncy) and maybe the spawnpoint problem of Crashed should be solved somehow. I could try to do both things if I get the permission to do so :P

If a map isn't popular on public servers it doesn't mean it is bad. It's the same situation as with music, films etc.. A lot of admins just take maps that most people want to play. But you have to leave some unique maps. I remember in early versions of Day of Defeat there was this map Hill, which wasn't maybe balanced or good looking but it was fun as hell and everybody I played it with loved it. But then it got kicked out because all the maps got more and more quality. Now all the maps are great and stuff but I still miss my Hill :(. I sure hope Soldat has some maps like that (maybe Micro ;)).
I say we fix the maps that are buggy and it will solve the problem. You can fix them if you get permission from the authors.

mmh who made Equi and Crashed? :p

One of them, or maybe both, was done by Jaybee or Amblin I think.

Equinox was done by JayBee, Dropdown by Boxo, and Crashed.. well, it was posted in the maps forum, let me find it.

Edit: Found it, some fin guy by the name of Deo. Here's the topic:
http://www.soldatforums.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16682&SearchTerms=ctf_crashed

Personally, I am not a big fan of Nuubia, but I am a map nazi, so shoot me.

quote:Originally posted by Michal MarcinkowskiI sure hope Soldat has some maps like that (maybe Micro ;)).

Want me to make a new version of Micro for 1.2.2? :D

I want "fall" back. Oh the memories :)

quote:Originally posted by b00stAI want "fall" back. Oh the memories :)


I like that map too ^___^

Looks like I have a lot of mapmaking to do :|

What the (Please refrain from swearing) is 'Micro' ?

quote:Originally posted by KnOtWhat the (Please refrain from swearing) is 'Micro' ?


:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[IMAGE]

Craziest official map ever.

Cool.. :Q

i see the M lol

" i see the M lol"
to me it looks like a fist coming at me with brass knuckles...
I liked that map, wouldnt it basically be pretty much all bullet time though lol

I made Equinox and Chernobyl.

Anyone can try and fix them (polygons on Equinox, maybe file size of sceneries in Chernobyl, as a lot of people complain about it (and get errors about not enough video memory)).

But please let me see your results first.