So what have we learned today except that an anal passage is smaller than a vagina from todays matches?

I learned:
Surprisingly, lowering damage to the autos doesn't make them useless. It is the bink that makes them overpowered. Lowering the damage a little bit more should do the trick.
The eagles are non-binked weapons and I've seen it own autos. So we should nerf it also a bit.

I concur.

Autos need significantly less power.
DE's = still quite handy

DE needs damage set to 178. That's fo shure.

As for the autos, if self-bink doesn't work, movement affecting aim is the only solution I can think of, since lowering their damage by 20% or similiar amounts would render them useless in non-team games.

I dunno Demo...back in 1.1.5 there were a few people who actually managed to use the auto to great effect.

I remember being literally stunned when il'nadj killed me with an ak74 in just a few shots. I thought he was hacking :|


..it's all about accuracy. If anything, less damage will promote it in replacement of sprayage.

slight Deagles nerf would be ok for me

but for autos I insist on R E C O I L.
Try putting some recoil on autos in normal mode, maybe 25-40% of realistic mode recoil, and you'll see it will work. This idea came to me like some "flash" and im 100% sure it will do the job better than selfbink or significant damage reducing.

Slight damage decrease + recoil is the ultimate solution imho.

Even if you don't agree with me, please let us at least try it, and if it doesnt work we can still go back to a significant power decrease.

Guess we could give it a shot, but I think that'd result in ruger and DE dominance.
I modified c_f's weapon mod a bit and lowered the automatics damage greatly.
http://llsc.us/members/Demonic/uploads/demomod.txt

I agree, a little bit of recoil on autos.

Here are the settings we played yesterday:

quote:
[USSOCOM]
Damage=176
FireInterval=12
Ammo=12
ReloadTime=65
Speed=180
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Desert Eagles]
Damage=179
FireInterval=22
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=103
Speed=190
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[HK MP5]
Damage=116
FireInterval=6
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=95
Speed=190
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Ak-74]
Damage=113
FireInterval=11
Ammo=40
ReloadTime=150
Speed=240
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=68
FireInterval=7
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=115
Speed=260
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Spas-12]
Damage=126
FireInterval=34
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=175
Speed=140
BulletStyle=3
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Ruger 77]
Damage=252
FireInterval=32
Ammo=4
ReloadTime=75
Speed=330
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=16
MovementAcc=3

[M79]
Damage=165000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=180
Speed=110
BulletStyle=4
StartUpTime=0
Bink=15
MovementAcc=3

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=495
FireInterval=240
Ammo=10
ReloadTime=300
Speed=550
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=80
MovementAcc=6

[FN Minimi]
Damage=82
FireInterval=9
Ammo=50
ReloadTime=250
Speed=270
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=2

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage=51
FireInterval=4
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=290
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=50
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Flamer]
Damage=1000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=5
Speed=105
BulletStyle=5
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Rambo Bow]
Damage=1200
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=25
Speed=210
BulletStyle=7
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Flamed Arrows]
Damage=800
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=39
Speed=180
BulletStyle=8
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Combat Knife]
Damage=215000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=60
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Chainsaw]
Damage=2100
FireInterval=4
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=65
Speed=70
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[M72 LAW]
Damage=150000
FireInterval=30
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=600
Speed=230
BulletStyle=12
StartUpTime=26
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Punch]
Damage=33000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=50
BulletStyle=6
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Grenade]
Damage=150000
FireInterval=80
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=20
Speed=50
BulletStyle=2
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Stationary Gun]
Damage=180
FireInterval=10
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=360
BulletStyle=14
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1


-----------------
I'll checkout how it works with recoil, but then they should have more damage to be competitive.

mmh its already more than competitive the way theyre now. I think recoil alone could solve it, if they get too weak, we can still add damage via the weapons.ini :p

I did the recoil and... I really don't like it. It doesn't seem right in a non-realistic game.

Ideas left are:
- bulletts going poof after half a screen
- autos "overheat"
- high movement affecting aim
- severly lowered damage

And still: the LAW... It seems you never want to talk about it, Michal..

quote:Originally posted by Michal MarcinkowskiI did the recoil and... I really don't like it. It doesn't seem right in a non-realistic game.
Thank God.

Just lower the damage for all the autos a bit. See how that goes.

quote:Originally posted by Hitmanquote:Originally posted by Michal MarcinkowskiI did the recoil and... I really don't like it. It doesn't seem right in a non-realistic game.
Thank God.

Just lower the damage for all the autos a bit. See how that goes.
If my memories serve me right, I think we tried that, and it's pretty much the same. Spraying is still present and 2 or more people using the autos still owns.

I'll remove the air-law-shoot and add self-bink for the autos. I tweaked it a bit and I think it might be good.

are we going to have another slaughter session then?

If I'm reading this correctly, then the problem we are facing is the fact that autos are too powerful when 3+ people use them in a team. I don't know if this has been suggested before but, why not have an option for server admins to allow a certain weapon/weapon class to be used by one or two people at the same time on the same team.

In other words, they can set it so that there can only be a maximum of two people using an auto in a team at the same time. Could be usful for solving the problems with clan-wars as I'm sure it's not that big of a problem in publics.

A good idea (already suggested by mrx), but still autos need to be rebalanced because atm in 121 2 minimis or aks can often be enough to turn a game around.

What about spas and ruger? How are they?

Spas is pretty much balanced, since it's hard to be good enough to totally devastate the enemy with it.
Ruger needs a bit more reload time, like 1.5x the current amount it has I think, because it can easily beat the enemy, just like the DE's in 1.2.1. (I'm talking about beta4 here)