Well, I got a pretty good idea today as I was playing 1.2.1. I marched into U13 only to step right in the middle of a conversation about this very beta. Of course, the people that were talking about the beta were pretty confused upon what is fact and what is not. However, they were also complaining about the way the weapons were going to be changed (as far as they'd heard). I thought to myself: "The version isn't even out yet and the complaints are already there." So, I thought it would rock if we could counter this.

My idea is that in Michal's releasing post, he can post one or two small, white lies. For example, he could say that the AK has been powered up by 2 points, when it really hasn't been. People won't notice, but they'll whine about it anyway. The thing is, when they do whine about it, we can rub it in their faces and show them how much their opinions are worth when they're not even based on their own consious. I'd really like to show all these whiners that most of their complaints don't even come from their own discoveries. Take the transition from 1.2 to 1.2.1 for example. Michal told everyone in his opening post that the AK had been slightly powered up. People most likely would not have found that out and wouldn't have noticed. If they hadn't known that it was powered up, they wouldn't have whined. So this time, I'm thinking we could tell them something is powered up, so they whine about it all over the place, and then we give them evidence that it isn't as a way of tell them to shut the hell up and stop whining. :D

Thoughts?

I totally agree.

I totally disagree. What for? That's useless, sry. For sure there is whining shortly after the release because of things said in the changelog or anywhere. But what's being whined about after some weeks after the release, that's what's really more or less true. People whine about AK now, saying it's overpowered. Why? Because it IS overpowered. So where's the problem? Informing people uncorrectly would totally suck, just because of a bit whining in the beginning. Useless, senseless.

its a pretty good idea, and will probably prove your theory true, altho it'll just cause chaos and confusion.

i agree, but at what point do we tell them? I think this would be a complimenting demonstration to what Denacke said about trusting our judgement in what has been done. The only way this would achieve anything is if nobody says anything about it until the right time, like after a couple threads have been made about the "false" changes. It really needs to be put off until we all agree it is time to tell them about it.

MisterX, I believe it would get people to stop whining about weapon balance, at least some. It gives us another edge for future betas to point this out to them and point out "your opinions could just be a matter of fiction" or whatever it is that you would choose to say. I think it is a simple way to make people think twice about complaining.

I'm a bit hesitant to take the same side as hitman though, because he loves to just stir sh*t up, and i don't know if he agrees with the concept or just wants to mess with people.

<3

No, it wouldn't change anything! Look, I agree there are many people whining in the beginning. For example playing with M79, seeing that it got binked more, and then whining "Omg, this makes the game so unbalanced, M79 wasn't the best before, now it totally sucks blabla" without even having played the newest version. But so many months after the release, like now, it's only the people whining that really have a reason to do so. For example many players that play clanwars. Don't you think they know a little more after having played the current version for 15 months or so, than just what's written in the changelog? Don't tell me you don't..
Also I'm sure it would cause quite some mistrust for Michal I'm sure, if people notice that what's written in a changelog is wrong. Why read a changelog if you can't be sure about things being true or not? Do you really think this would be "helpful"? I say it's plain useless!

You all bring up very good points. Because of the previous threads that were made by beta testers to confuse the public about the beta, our trust is hanging by a bundle of threads.

The point of this? To show the public that they wouldn't know if something is overpowered until they are told so, more or less. MisterX, most people that whine about the AK being overpowered only do so because they know that it has been powered up. If they didn't know that, they really have no way of comparing the AK from 1.2 to the AK from 1.2.1, unless they were to test out how many shots it takes and so on, but no one really goes through the trouble to do so. There's not really problem; it's more like a bug in the community that needs fixing.

I'm not crazy about this idea, but it would be pretty damn cool to show the public that some of their opinions are based on pure facts that that they themselves stretched into a huge problem, and that isn't right. I think the way Brick described it would be best. As soon as we see 2 or 3 threads about weapon balance in these forums, it would be the right time to reveal the truth. I think that it would work out best if we did it in a friendly way, without the rub-it-in-their-face attitude [me, for example].

Edit: MisterX makes some good points in the above post. =| Agh!

quote:Originally posted by Kazuki MisterX, most people that whine about the AK being overpowered only do so because they know that it has been powered up. If they didn't know that, they really have no way of comparing the AK from 1.2 to the AK from 1.2.1, unless they were to test out how many shots it takes and so on, but no one really goes through the trouble to do so. There's not really problem; it's more like a bug in the community that needs fixing.
Do you really think, after having played a Soldat version for about 15 months (no, I don't know when 1.2.1 was released now, it's just a guess), they still only argue about things that are only written in a text file, rather than about their own experience? For sure they complain about things that are said to come, they have no chance of actually testing those things themselves now. For sure they will still complain right after it came out because they lack the needed experience. But they WILL get the experience. If you just play many clanwars in 1.2.1, you'll soon notice yourself what's balanced and what isn't. It wouldn't do anything!

I suppose we could just trash the idea. I was just trying to think of a way that we could stop people from whining about weapon balance for the wrong reasons.

quote:Originally posted by KazukiMisterX, most people that whine about the AK being overpowered only do so because they know that it has been powered up.
that's not true.
a personal example would be me. i honestly didnt know it was powered up untill recently (a week or so).

quote:Originally posted by KazukiI suppose we could just trash the idea. I was just trying to think of a way that we could stop people from whining about weapon balance for the wrong reasons.

But why do you actually think people whine (still hate it!) for the wrong reasons?

no, I dont think any official news should contain such things. Itd totally ruin the climate, especially between betatesters and non-betatesters.

/me changes his mind

not worth the chaos, and i think itd make beta testers look bad to a lot of the people who already dont like us

lol, I feel like such a dumbass now because almost everyone's against it. :P

[IMAGE]

lol, Thanks, Soap. That warms me up. :P

Soaps little comic sums up my opinion :D

There's this guy inside me, with claws and bat-wings, that's rambling "WE NEED THIS, SHOW THE MASSES WHAT THEY TRULY ARE", but he gets beaten up by the hammer of common sense afterwards.

I bet, that when 1.2.2 comes out, the whining topics will be: Spraying, Barreting, Minigun surf, and something that we haven't calculated. If we throw in some white lies, more whining discussions will come, but they will be calculated. It doesn't matter.
The SEC finals are a great example for why NOT to mention false things in the change-log: the sweds used Ak, because they thought it is the most powerfull auto, simply because the increased damage. If they had used minimi/steyr, I think they would've played a tie against finland. They didn't even bother to look at c_f's weapon mod change-log, which stated that the Ak has damage lowered.

Alright, then, how about we say nothing about the weapon balance? Don't even mention it while releasing 1.2.2? I suppose they can just figure it out on their own.

the thought crossed my mind (of saying nothing), but i didnt want to suggest a bad idea and be in the same boat as Kazuki

Yeah, I though of this too some time ago. But it'd be disrespectful towards people that don't make such a big deal about it. Other than all the confusion.

All that should be said about the new balance is something overall like

"Weapons rebalanced"
and
"Introduced selfbink"

I agree, Grand Diablo. Screw my bad idea, but not revealing anything but the general statements that you said about weapon balance to the public might be better than telling them straight out.

Saying nothing specific would be fine for me. At least then you don't lie. I still don't think it'd be useful for anything than perhaps against a bit whining directly after the release, but it'll be there anyway. For example AK users will get pwned by Rugerers, so they say Ruger is too strong and start whining about that. I don't think it'll change much.. but no problem with the idea.

If we dont even tell a general statement, many ppl will definitely go like "AND WHAT ABOUT THE SPRAY??" after the release. Better give them a general statement and let them find out for themselves. This is also the best way to find out if weve done a good job. If ppl complain about a variety of weapons being too strong or too nerfed, we can recognize for ourselves that they just whine because they want to whine or they just arent used yet to the new handling of their favourite weapons. If the wining concentrates on 1 or 2 weapons, then there is still a need for improvement.

But I don't think there will be a monstrous domination of one particular weapon, like it was in 1.2.1. Maybe one or another will still be a tad stronger than others, but still beatable. So the times were CWs were turned around by switching to one weapon (group) are over.

I don't want to lie to people. I think it would be funny but no.
Telling nothing is an option. I'll add the file weapons121.ini to the release so if anyones curious they may check.