Everyone seems to be experimenting with balance. I like this. It means people are interested and want to show the world what their idea on balance is.


Well maybe we can get a better idea of what we 'all' think of balance, if you post your own personal weapon mod here and describe what you like about it.

Give it your best shot.


(for comparision, latest beta stats - http://archive.forums.soldat.pl/topic.php?topic_id=25693 )

see: http://www.soldatforums.com/topic.asp?topic_id=25796

From Michals mod and lately Outcasts mod I recognized, that especially Deagles, Ruger and MP5 were unbalanced and also the Spas was slightly too strong. Starting from that I nerfed around, combining a decrease of dmg speed and experimenting with fire intervalls. I had a lucky hand and at the first try, the Spas was balanced again, at the second and third try I managed to balance the autos with the Ruger and solve the mp5 problem. Also the rest should be ok now, means: balanced Deagles and minimi. The m79 is stronger now and the LAW shoots faster to equal out the shooting delay a bit (but not too much). The socom is now what it should be: a 2ndary wep.

http://llsc.us/members/Demonic/uploads/demomod.txt

My weapon mod doesn't balance the weapons by balancing them one by one, I tried to balance them out as a whole. Increased Ruger reload, lowered automatics damage (+minigun too, it's a slayer) and increased self-bink effects. Still untested properly though ¬_¬

quote:Originally posted by grand_diablosee: http://www.soldatforums.com/topic.asp?topic_id=25796

From Michals mod and lately Outcasts mod I recognized, that especially Deagles, Ruger and MP5 were unbalanced and also the Spas was slightly too strong. Starting from that I nerfed around, combining a decrease of dmg speed and experimenting with fire intervalls. I had a lucky hand and at the first try, the Spas was balanced again, at the second and third try I managed to balance the autos with the Ruger and solve the mp5 problem. Also the rest should be ok now, means: balanced Deagles and minimi. The m79 is stronger now and the LAW shoots faster to equal out the shooting delay a bit (but not too much). The socom is now what it should be: a 2ndary wep.



meh, my deagles were the same as yours :), but i nerfed the mp5 and ruger dmg a bit too little, which i fixed already ;p
My other guns were fine :o
Also i had had the reduced the start up time on law too :o
But i also added a bit of bink to everything to make it fair... (5 to socom, deagles, law, spas)...i agree my spas was a bit...weird though. Otherwise you did fine yes :) But it believe you nerfed the minimi a bit too much, if you haven't fixed it from yesterday.

Well so far, your two mods when compared to the current beta and each other...

FI= FireInterval (aka, weapons Rate of Fire)
SB= Self Bink
Dibo's socom is significantly weaker (from 176 to 149, 65 to 70 reload time, and 80-90 speed)
Dibo's DE's are changed (from 176-171, FI from 22 to 20, and small minute changes to speed and reload time)

Dibo's MP5 damage dropped from 118 to 108, FI from 6-7, minor change to reload and speed, and SB from 22-20
Demo's MP5 reduced to exact same damage, but all other stats remained normal (except SB to 30)

Dibo's AK74 kept basically the same, 'cept damage from 119 to 117
Demo's also has the same damage, but has SB at 47

Dibo's Steyr is essentially the same to the casual eye (very small changes in all stats)
Demo's however has basic stats, except 45 SB

Dibo's shotty damage reduced from 126 to 119, FI from 34 to 33, Speed increase from 140 to 148

Dibo's ruger damage reduced from 252 to 241 (!), FI upto 35 from 32, Reload from 75 to 84, speed from 330 to 322
Demo's humbly has a 115 reload.

Dibo's M79 bink reduced from 15 to 13 ...

Dibo's minimi damage reduced from 89 to 83, speed from 270 to 257, SB reduced from 40 to 35
Demo's minimi SB increased from 40 to 50

Dibo's Minigun damage reduced from 55 to 50 (was 54 in 1.2.1 I believe)
Demo's Minigun damage reduced from 55 to 48 , and SB increased from 8 to 14


..and some minute changes to barret reload and law's startup time.


Well from this, I can establish that both of you want MP5 taken down a notch, consider AK a bit of a nuisance, Steyr to be less of a problem, ruger to be a right pain in the arse, minimi a bit of a spam-machine, and minigun far too annoying to be worthy of a healthy return to Soldat.

Anyone agree to these? anyone got any more mods to share?

[USSOCOM]
Damage=160
FireInterval=12
Ammo=12
ReloadTime=65
Speed=180
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=5
MovementAcc=1

[Desert Eagles]
Damage=179
FireInterval=20
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=103
Speed=190
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=5
MovementAcc=1

[HK MP5]
Damage=110
FireInterval=6
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=95
Speed=190
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=-30
MovementAcc=1

[Ak-74]
Damage=116
FireInterval=11
Ammo=40
ReloadTime=150
Speed=240
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=-38
MovementAcc=1

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=76
FireInterval=7
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=115
Speed=260
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=-35
MovementAcc=1

[Spas-12]
Damage=121
FireInterval=37
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=175
Speed=148
BulletStyle=3
StartUpTime=0
Bink=5
MovementAcc=1

[Ruger 77]
Damage=247
FireInterval=40
Ammo=4
ReloadTime=100
Speed=330
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=16
MovementAcc=1

[M79]
Damage=165000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=180
Speed=110
BulletStyle=4
StartUpTime=0
Bink=15
MovementAcc=2

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=495
FireInterval=240
Ammo=10
ReloadTime=300
Speed=550
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=65
MovementAcc=4

[FN Minimi]
Damage=84
FireInterval=9
Ammo=50
ReloadTime=250
Speed=270
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=-35
MovementAcc=2

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage=49
FireInterval=4
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=290
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=50
Bink=-8
MovementAcc=4

[Flamer]
Damage=1000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=5
Speed=105
BulletStyle=5
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Rambo Bow]
Damage=1200
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=25
Speed=210
BulletStyle=7
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Flamed Arrows]
Damage=800
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=39
Speed=180
BulletStyle=8
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Combat Knife]
Damage=215000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=60
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Chainsaw]
Damage=2100
FireInterval=4
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=65
Speed=70
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[M72 LAW]
Damage=150000
FireInterval=30
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=600
Speed=230
BulletStyle=12
StartUpTime=18
Bink=5
MovementAcc=1

[Punch]
Damage=33000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=50
BulletStyle=6
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Grenade]
Damage=150000
FireInterval=80
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=20
Speed=50
BulletStyle=2
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Stationary Gun]
Damage=180
FireInterval=10
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=360
BulletStyle=14
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

quote:Originally posted by Outcastquote:Originally posted by grand_diablosee: http://www.soldatforums.com/topic.asp?topic_id=25796

From Michals mod and lately Outcasts mod I recognized, that especially Deagles, Ruger and MP5 were unbalanced and also the Spas was slightly too strong. Starting from that I nerfed around, combining a decrease of dmg speed and experimenting with fire intervalls. I had a lucky hand and at the first try, the Spas was balanced again, at the second and third try I managed to balance the autos with the Ruger and solve the mp5 problem. Also the rest should be ok now, means: balanced Deagles and minimi. The m79 is stronger now and the LAW shoots faster to equal out the shooting delay a bit (but not too much). The socom is now what it should be: a 2ndary wep.



Its already fixed, see topic where I listed the mod with its recent changes ;)

meh, my deagles were the same as yours :), but i nerfed the mp5 and ruger dmg a bit too little, which i fixed already ;p
My other guns were fine :o
Also i had had the reduced the start up time on law too :o
But i also added a bit of bink to everything to make it fair... (5 to socom, deagles, law, spas)...i agree my spas was a bit...weird though. Otherwise you did fine yes :) But it believe you nerfed the minimi a bit too much, if you haven't fixed it from yesterday.

quote:Originally posted by grand_diabloquote:Originally posted by Outcastquote:Originally posted by grand_diablosee: http://www.soldatforums.com/topic.asp?topic_id=25796

From Michals mod and lately Outcasts mod I recognized, that especially Deagles, Ruger and MP5 were unbalanced and also the Spas was slightly too strong. Starting from that I nerfed around, combining a decrease of dmg speed and experimenting with fire intervalls. I had a lucky hand and at the first try, the Spas was balanced again, at the second and third try I managed to balance the autos with the Ruger and solve the mp5 problem. Also the rest should be ok now, means: balanced Deagles and minimi. The m79 is stronger now and the LAW shoots faster to equal out the shooting delay a bit (but not too much). The socom is now what it should be: a 2ndary wep.



Its already fixed, see topic where I listed the mod with its recent changes ;)

meh, my deagles were the same as yours :), but i nerfed the mp5 and ruger dmg a bit too little, which i fixed already ;p
My other guns were fine :o
Also i had had the reduced the start up time on law too :o
But i also added a bit of bink to everything to make it fair... (5 to socom, deagles, law, spas)...i agree my spas was a bit...weird though. Otherwise you did fine yes :) But it believe you nerfed the minimi a bit too much, if you haven't fixed it from yesterday.



Kill me for reading only half of it :>

Hmm. Both Outy and GD want the Socom tuned down a bit. I understand why myself, it shouldn't be too powerful for a tiny pistol, then again it shouldn't be too weak.

You all seem convinced MP5 is too much, and that AK74 is just a 'tad' too much, but you all seem to be leaving the Steyr well alone. Why is that?

You also all seem to have your own various ways of nerfing the ruger. I must remind you Outcast that Cold Fusion did mostly the same as what yours did when it came to the ruger, and Michal tried it out. He said the long Fireinterval was a big no no. Still, this leaves no doubt that we all know the ruger is too dominating.

You also nerfed Minigun as well as reduced LAW startup time. But I notice you didn't even touch the minimi ....are you 'still' a minimi whore? Personal bias on a weapon is not permitted! ..and you call yourself a beta tester ¬_¬


Still, we're establishing some things on what we all concieve to be better balance. Good work Outcast, and the rest of ya.


..oh yeah. I also notice that DE's seem to be favoured as being between Just-about-right-as-they-are, and Well-they-could-do-with-some-more. We need to do alot of testing methink.

minimi default dmg : 89 .... my dmg : 84. I touched it :p
And steyr seems fine as it is.

We just finished playing Diablo's weapon mod on the SK server. We had autos vs. everything else for two rounds, on the same map, and we swapped both weapons and teams. The auto team won both rounds by about 2-3 scores. This may be because autos are very strong in groups. However, we noticed some other weapon balance issues...

1) The Ruger is very uncomfortable to shoot. Demonic pointed out that maybe it was balanced the wrong way. He suggested that the reload should be lengthened and the Ruger itself restored to its original state.

2) Desert Eagles are way too strong, we believe. Not exactly sure, but maybe the power should be brought down a little bit.

3) The LAW is still quite useless. You can't really kill anyone with it unless you do it kamikaze style or are fine with losing health while charging it up. Though this issue could be based more on opinions, everyone seems to be leaning towards the fact that the LAW has been nerfed to the 9th circle of Hell.

That's about as much as I could pull out of that session.

quote:The auto team won both rounds by about 2-3 scores
No, the first game was tied 1-1
The second game was 5-2 or similar

I think the Ruger is perfect, and that is coming from a ruger whore.

I concur on the Desert Eagles thing (Not WAY too strong, just a little too strong..)

I use the LAW all the time and about 1/4th of my kills came from it, I think it's perfect now..not too weak to be ignored, and not too powerfull to be overused.

I thought Dibo's mod was nearly perfect, the only thing I didn't like too much were the deagles.

Dibo's ruger has it that it fires a tad slower but takes 3 shots to kill (2 with one headshot. Just like the first beta release).

I (naturally) concur with Demo's conclusion, as I helped him test the idea of longer reload. Though I consider in hindsight, maybe increase it to around 125 or 135 instead of 115. Something worth testing.
Anyone else got opinions on this ruger? it's proving a difficult subject.

DE's had slightly less damage in Dibo's mod, but had significantly faster firing rate. Could that be why?


How about we just bring the law back to what it was eh ....i mean it wasn't that popular, and not 'the' most annoying weapon.
Although I don't really see the problem with the delay. I've got used to it, seems alright.

Well IMO the only things we can touch on for the ruger is its bink and reload time. Anything else would just make it not feel right. Doubling the reload time and increase the bink are tiny bit are also possible solutions.

I'd only like to add that the LAW only needs a bit less wind-up time, and it would be perfect. Perfect I say! As for the automatics, a bit more self-bink wouldn't hurt, since it wouldn't be so newbie-friendly, and if the enemy sprays, they have to sweat too.

Ive updated my mod and uploaded the new version to the sk server. Main changes: I unnerfed the ruger a bit more and slightly weakened the deagles.

// :: grand_diablos Balance mod

[USSOCOM]
Damage=150
FireInterval=12
Ammo=12
ReloadTime=70
Speed=190
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Desert Eagles]
Damage=166
FireInterval=20
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=101
Speed=192
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[HK MP5]
Damage=109
FireInterval=7
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=97
Speed=192
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=-22
MovementAcc=1

[Ak-74]
Damage=117
FireInterval=11
Ammo=40
ReloadTime=150
Speed=242
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=-35
MovementAcc=1

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=74
FireInterval=7
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=113
Speed=262
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=-35
MovementAcc=1

[Spas-12]
Damage=118
FireInterval=33
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=173
Speed=148
BulletStyle=3
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Ruger 77]
Damage=242
FireInterval=34
Ammo=4
ReloadTime=84
Speed=325
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=15
MovementAcc=3

[M79]
Damage=165000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=178
Speed=115
BulletStyle=4
StartUpTime=0
Bink=12
MovementAcc=3

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=495
FireInterval=235
Ammo=10
ReloadTime=300
Speed=550
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=70
MovementAcc=6

[FN Minimi]
Damage=83
FireInterval=9
Ammo=50
ReloadTime=250
Speed=259
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=-35
MovementAcc=2

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage=49
FireInterval=4
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=282
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=50
Bink=-10
MovementAcc=1

[Flamer]
Damage=1000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=5
Speed=105
BulletStyle=5
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Rambo Bow]
Damage=1200
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=25
Speed=210
BulletStyle=7
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Flamed Arrows]
Damage=800
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=39
Speed=180
BulletStyle=8
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Combat Knife]
Damage=215000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=60
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Chainsaw]
Damage=2100
FireInterval=4
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=65
Speed=70
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[M72 LAW]
Damage=150000
FireInterval=30
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=540
Speed=240
BulletStyle=12
StartUpTime=20
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Punch]
Damage=33000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=50
BulletStyle=6
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Grenade]
Damage=150000
FireInterval=80
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=20
Speed=50
BulletStyle=2
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

[Stationary Gun]
Damage=180
FireInterval=10
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=360
BulletStyle=14
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1

Ok, we'll try that tomorrow as arranged. We'll (Please refrain from swearing) around with it, then try some of the other mods when we're satisfied with looked in every corner.

Haha! N00bface was basically the only player in the SK server who said something along the lines of "OMG THIS MOD IS PERFECT!"

and everybody else just said "this mod absolutely sucks" without giving any reasons. hahahahahahahahah. yeah.

If you played in the slaughter today, you would know most of us likes demonic's WM the best out of the 4.

But some changes are need to be made in order to perfect it. Minimi, Ak-74, and steyr are a bit strong. Minimi nd AK needs to have more self-bink, steyr either needs less speed or less damage or both.

Some (knot) were also complaining about the LAW is taking too long to 'aim'.

If someone can modify demonic's WM to fit those changes, that would be great.

autis generally need to be a bit weaker in comparison, for they have bigger clips and a much higher fire rate than any other weapon group. Combining that with the bink makes them too strong in groups.

But yeah, I guess this is being tested in the sessions :p

Have we experimented with 'heavy' self bink and same power autos?

ie: the aim (Please refrain from swearing)s after about 5-10 shots, then you gotta stop. To promote proper burst-fire operation.

I wasn't obviously testing all the settings with you guys. Could you tell me at what point you are?

After all mods by single players were tested, it was decided to mix some mods with each other (combined mod1), which borught quite nice results. I did some adjustements to the combined mod then (combined mod2, see WMods list thread). Dunno how much combined2 has been tested yet. But we're (imo) on a good way :p

So the most recent results are the combined mod and combined mod 2.

Personally ... a tad confused.

A few things I know. DE's are generally appreciated no matter what of the previous mods we use. Somewhere around 175 damage and 3-4 hit kills are liked without complaint it seems. Definitely not lower than, say, 170ish though.

The autos self-bink ranges from immediate dislike, to perfect, to maybe not enough. Thats what i'm most confused about.


Shotgun is always fine.

Ruger is ...difficult to get right. As a rugertard, Cold_Fusions modification (with a slower rate of fire, and now a much needed slightly longer reload which you tried yourself two weeks back) is growing on me. The slower rate of fire is certainly more....boring...but it's still an efficient weapon and certainly fairer.

Overall opinion on ruger is that it should be 'nerfed' in some way, but the 2 hit kill shouldn't change at the same time. You work it out luv.

People seem content with m79 and barret. I can see them making a good return to Soldat for main use.

People aren't liking Minigun with it's extra 1 point of damage.


People are 'still' not liking the law's new startup-time before firing, but despite this i'm seeing alot of people making very good use of it. So basically it's unwanted nerf, but still remains an effective secondary.

Most mods we've tried I think have a 'slightly' weaker socom. People have either not noticed or are ok with it.


Would you like fries with that?

quote:Would you like fries with that?
Please. Can I use my credit card for that?

Ruger shouldn't be boring. I think bink is the solution for it.
Also, can I have the combined weapon mod which you find most interesting?

its on the SK serv

V1: weapons_combined.ini
V2: weapons_combined2.ini

The only adaption to the LAW id suggest is making the shooting delay just a lil bit shorter and increase the LAWs rocket speed (as I did in combined mod v2)

increase?! it's annoying enough as it is! >:|

Increase the LAWs missile speed (like it is in V2, not more)
Decrease the shooting delay a bit

OK looks good. I'll make the self-bink less when you are crouching because I always feel like doing it when shooting an auto-gun now.

are you gonna do a max cursor size? or max self bink point?

I might.