Playing in the testing games today forced me to extensively use autos. I've not really played 122e much, and I was shocked when I saw how much they sucked. I assume the self bink is to stop people from spraying. The fact of the matter is, it doesn't. In fact, it encourages spraying; a wider arc of bullets will hit more people.
I suggest that instead of this, a slowdown of the firing rate is introduced. The longer the fire button is held, the slower the gun fires. Simple. Spraying would be prevented, accurate firing would be encouraged due to less bullets being fired. It's a win-win situation!
Post some feedback, please.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing earlier about the spray hitting more people.

I agree.

I think your idea is silly for a start. Slowing down an autos rate of fire? blimey guv..

I personally approve of SB (Self Bink). It's innacuracy promotes the player to be more accurate in the first place and to use burst fire, and it also gives the other weapons a chance. A slower rate of fire would continue hitting the binked weapon users (such as m79 and barret) so they wouldn't get the momentary advantage thats available with SB.

It also wouldn't solve the obvious problem of group-autos dominating the game.


..look, I know it's frustrating to get used to it. It certainly ain't instantly likeable. But I personally find the SB'd weapons still highly usable after you get used to them, and are more than competitive.

I can cope with the selfbink too, although I really didnt like it at start. We should mess around with it a bit, to find the strength of SB fitting to each auto. Any other solution wont solve the group dominance problem, cause of the bink those weapons cause - like hawt sexy Chak said.

the SB actually forces group auto users to THINK and COORDINATE.

THINKING:
Before: Weee, let's just blindly spray over that Viet hill, wee!
Now: When should I start firing, to hit early and be advantaged and not be killed in the "unselfbinking pause"?

COORDINATING:
Before: Weeee, Im a minimi whore, I can take it on with 3 rugers!
Now: Mhh, lets attack player X first, then the other guy.


Semi-/nonauto wep users always had to coordinate in team modes, cause of the slowness of their weapons, there was simply no real chance to take on more than one enemy at a time. Now auto users are forced to think instead of blindy spraying forward and they really need to coordinate to be very effective.

Surely the SB change makes Soldat slower. But the game is still fast paced enough. I prefer the SB change due to the increase of tactical play and therefore I can cope with a loss on gameplay speed, you should be able to do so aswell. It'll take some time to get used to, but it's worth it because I can finally look forward to publics and cws not being dominated solely by minimi and ak (Please refrain from swearing) ;)

Self bink is neat.

Dibo pretty much said it all :)

yeah, I realy like the SelfBink..
I think it would help pretty much preventing the spraying, it's just a matter of getting used to it.
I think it should be even harder --> if u keep clicking the fire button repeatedly you could get no selfbink, selfbink should be when the gun just shot too many bullets for a short period of time. However, i'm realy satisfied the way it's now, let's test it a bit more and see how it goes..

quote:Originally posted by grand_diabloStuff

That's all well and good for clanwars and such, but think about the public servers! Do you really think the game will be made better by bullets being everywhere at any particular moment in time?
Here's an illustration of what I'm trying to say.
[IMAGE]

[IMAGE]

I think also public users will learn to shoot in bursts, and no, the autos wont be too ineffective, if we find a good balance between selfbink and damage, no matter what pics you post ;)

But I can counter that...
[IMAGE]

I agree with Diablo. Also, Sticky, I want my hat from Fig. 4 back.

omfg barret pwns now p433r teh CIA

I've also used the help of stickman to demonstrate what I feel would be the best way to incorporate bink, self-bink or otherwise.

As you can see from the figure below, when you're being self-binked, the bullets seem to go at either extreme of the binked radius.

[IMAGE]



A more reasonable approach would be to have the bullets spread randomly throughout the larger firing radius. Also, a maximum bink angle of <=45 degrees from the normal would be sufficient to stop bullets being fired at all angles and behind you.

[IMAGE]

This would still mean that you'd still have to adjust or burst your auto weapon, and you'd still have a few shots around the area you're aiming for.

That would lead to what Sticky is afraid of. Even though aiming would be harder once the selfbink works, blind spraying would become easier (and now imagine 3 minimis on Viet, covering the whole top hill area with random bullets). Don't forget, the main problem is not a single auto, but their group dominance:

quote:That's all well and good for clanwars and such, but think about the public servers! Do you really think the game will be made better by bullets being everywhere at any particular moment in time?


so no, I like that +/-45° solution we have atm.

Nice stick figures. I think this forum should be open for viewing after the release of 1.2.2 it would make people laugh :).

With self-bink you can still use the weapon as before with tapping. But tapping means that you have to think a bit more. It changes the psychological aspect of shooting an auto-weapon. It makes you think that it reqires more skill and tactics. That's why I think it is a good solution. G_D's comic shows what I think battles will look more likely.

Well, I'm glad that's sorted. Here is an amusing screenshot.
[IMAGE]

did you set the minigun to 1000 clips? :P

Maybe there should be a max cursor size

why? it's cool :P

People 'spray' with deagles and ruger too you know ;U .. Just saying.. it doesn't take an auto to spray..

the comparison lacks some basics. Deagles have 7 shots, a Ruger has 4. Sure you can shoot forward blindly, but the Rugers FI is rather high compared to any auto + it has got a higher relaod time meanwhile and deagles bullets dont go that far, maybe as far as mp5, but deagles still dont have such a low FI or 30 shots in the clip ;o

We've been testing combined V2 yesterday. Deagles are still quite effective at mid and low distance, while ruger is at mid & far distance (it still requires a bit of nerfing though). I think thats the way theyre meant to be. Not every weapon should be equal at every distance, because its just impossible to do and wouldnt require any variation in the choice of the weapons.

Goes without saying. We can do balance perfect if we make all weapons primarily the same... but all weapons should have their advantages and disatvantages and general variations towards making a better (and more difficult to make) balance.


Still, also goes without saying that 'spray' is more obviously an auto feature... more so than a semi-auto. At beyond screen distance, you can unload as much as you want with a semi-auto, but each shot has less and less chance to hit depending on the range. Of course, that doesn't mean it's impossible

An auto however, with a full clip unleashed upon an 'area' is more likely to give effect, and thus weaken someone by, lets say 1/8th to 1/4th damage. May not sound like much, but that shaves off a second on how long it takes for an auto to kill you when you up close and personal.


..phew, glad we got that sorted. What were we talking about?

About giving ruger a bit of bink so it becomes balanced again.

Speaking of which, i'm really not liking the m79's bink either. It has the same bink as ruger, which in all fairness ain't really much at all. I don't want to see another 1 shot weapon proving over-dominant.

I think they both should have 60%-80% of the bink they had in the last version.

Concurred for m79. But ruger with less bink? 15 bink isn't very long at all. Anyhow this ain't the topic for this ¬_¬