Guys, I'm getting realy tired of this.
I'm sorry but guys here just become some anti weapons [CENSORED]s which is realy not fair.
So right, we don't have much barret users in the beta team, that DOESN'T mean we should just overnerf this weapon
nor any other weapons out there.

Please try to be as objective as you could, and tell me how should we nerf the barret
(test it FIRST!)
there are few options :
*adding bink.
*adding delay (which in MY oppinion is enough)
*adding fireinterval.
*less ammo.
*In chakra's mod : adding bink, delay, fireinteval and ONLY 5 god damn ammo.

Do you think the last one is fair?! coz I ain't.. I realy don't..
so seriously now, we need to keep this weapon killingable, each one of u just say what do YOU think should be added and if it's delay.. how much time.. (60 tics = 1 sec.)

that's it.. that's the last barret post by me, I'm realy tired of this ****.

Chakra's mod with 10 ammo.

I got to mention that only the opinion of people who actually TESTED is is of importance here. We don't need another discussion topic that's all about theory.

So, after having tested it today, I'm sure that chakra's Barret works very well. With the delay, all the other players actually had good chances beating the barreter, yet the Barret was still very strong and more or less easy to use with it's aiming. And since all the others except for 1 agreed to this, I'm sure that's just the best balance.
I'd like to test this weapon again before the release of the new version, but it really seemed to be very fine. When the opposite team used it, as well as when I used it myself.

And again: ONLY people who have TESTED it should post here.

Imo its ok with delay (played some with it and I actually liked it) however it should be a a jiff shorter, I'd say 60% of what its on chacks mod.. Reducing ammo to 5 is ok aswell, perhaps adding a tiny bit of bink if U really want it so bad.
What I'd like anyways.
Ammo; 5 or 6
Delay; about 60% the amount on chacks mod

Thats about it.

Delay = Good
Fire interval = as long as it's almost the same, fine. If you add it too much, Barret will become too slow.
Bullets = 10 is good.

Maybe putting some less delay and adding more bink so it's ESPECIALLY harder to shoot while moving, so it'll make barret a bit harder.

Chakra's mod with 10 ammo.

I was there during testing (M|Z, for those who don't know).

Chakra's version.

I tested it too; Chakra's barret is perfect. It's a powerful long-range weapon, but you can't dogfight with autos or semi-autos.

I gotta add something
Fire interval = time between each bullet, it's fine atm, the barret can't even double kill by two shots.
I don't think fire interval should be added moreover the delay.
about the delay, as chakra's mod it was StartUpTime=30 = 1\2 sec.
if it was 1\4 it wouldn't realy help us noddy.. we want to give the autogunner chance of beating the barret, but more would be too much, I think 25 would just be perfect
(the law got atm 23)

Keep in mind that the lower the delay is, the lower the chances for the enemy are. If the delay is too slow, then it won't affect anything anymore, because the time the enemy has to bink/kill/evade the barreter is too low. :)

and when we tested the barret against semi autos (one shotweps vs semis the one shot won even though it should've been the other way round.. but that's about skills if u want or whatever)
and yeah, I gotta agree with Mr.x on that.
delay should be more than a Law A little bit so it could be binked by autos..
I think 25 would be enough, we gotta test it tho.

Chakra's mod with 10 ammo.

EDIT: I changed my mind because I found out chakra's barret wasn't the original one with delay.

So original barret with 30 startup time and +10 bink

I still think 5 or 6 bullets is fine, I reckon 25 in delay would be nice :P Its not that I think the long delay is that terrible, just have a feeling that its for ages ;D might have to with lag tho >_> dunno if that affects delay... a bit more bink is ok by me

Thanks Outcast. You might want to read that we need the opinions of people who tested it. Because of your nice argumentation I believe you didn't test it.

About the changes in Chakras weaponmod: He added +5 fireinterval (240 -> 245) and +10 bink (80 -> 90). But actually I really don't think it affects the weapon that much. And the bink also felt to be alright while testing.

Im going with Noddy on this one, the delay really needs to be cut back a bit. Im comfortable with the ammo, but the clip reload needs to be shortened if so.

Don't forget I made it so the aim is even worse when you move faster, did that affect the gameplay?

Not really I suppose. If you just stop in the air, you won't be affected by MovementAcc. Yet the delay seemed to work fine.

I can only explain it again:
The problem with the Barret is that the enemy doesn't have time to react to the Barret user before this one shoots (and kills mostly). A delay would give the enemy this time needed, still it wouldn't grant a kill, because you can't have 100% perfect aim with automatics at the distance of 1 screen. So the chances will be made more or less equal, which solves the problem.

And at least for me, it even increased the fun I had when using Barret. Because this way you have to think before shooting. For example you have to know when to start holding the fire button if the enemy is behind a wall and coming out.

I think The main problems with the barret are:

1. Assault snipers: They run around like any other player and kill at close ranges, before oponents have a chance to bink them.

2. Close quarters campers: Guys who camp in full view, within a safe enclosed area (usually a flag area) and just wait for others to make the first move (enter the area), the other guy has almost no chance because he is killed before he can do any damage.
For an example, see in inf_rise. A barret camper or two in the black flag spawn makes the game practically unbeatable.

When I first heard of adding a charge up time to the barrett, I thought it was pretty dumb since a sniper weapon should have the characteristics of being instant and effective. I didn't think it would fix anything.
But after testing (yes, I used the barrett), I realized that it solved both these problems.

1.For assault snipers, it gives an opponent a chance to get a shot off before you can shoot the barrett, so it makes this style of play much less effective.

2.For close range campers, if the camper does not have good timing then he won't be able to kill his opponent fast enough.

I don't have a problem with snipers who hide and kill from a good distance, this is exactly what the barret was made for.
If anything, I think the barrett should be given a longer zoom range to encourage long distance sniping.

The version in use on the SK beta server seems pretty good to me. The lack of ammo and delay work well, contrary to what I first thought, and while there was no one around to play a game with the test shots I fired at barrels and whatnot went pretty smoothly and accurately. The delay just forces you to really line up your shot, and you can get used to it with a bit of practice. This might give people the time they need to react (which still feels like it's contrary to the purpose of a sniper rifle imo), while still giving those who have the good shots lined up a smooth kill. Yet, as for how the gun plays and feels, I like it. I'd like to try this with other people though. Havn't been able to meet in game as much as I'd like to :/

Ok then, as I see it most of you guys for +10 bink..
so 10 bink was added.
all of you were also for delay, but how much.. in Chakra's mod it's 30, should it be 30 or 25?
ammo..? 10 ? 7? I'm for 10. just tell me what u think to make it done.
Do you think more fireinterval should be added? (chakra add 5, I think it's nerfed already without that adding)

I say the delay is perfect at 30. Everything else is nice too.

I feel 25 would be better, 30 is a teeny bit too long for my taste.

Maybe we should release the new weapons balance to the public weapon balance forum?

Although I think that the startup is way too long, it'd probably be best to put it in the public balance forum as yukwunhang said.

I think 25 would be just perfect :) and I also agree that once we have come up with a balance we think is ok, it should be publicly beta tested :O

quote:Originally posted by StickyAlthough I think that the startup is way too long, it'd probably be best to put it in the public balance forum as yukwunhang said.


indeed.. after trying different values( alone :( ), i think 15 would be great... i mean, the 1.3 law startup time (23) is definitely too much, so higher values for the barret would also suck imho
barret 15 ( and law 15-20) would be the best imho

With this delay I suppose the effect would be near to zero. Just think about it. The delay is ment to give the enemy a chance to bink the barreter. It's not even always possible with 30 delay. With half of it, it should be balance? No seriously, no.

quote:Originally posted by MisterXWith this delay I suppose the effect would be near to zero. Just think about it. The delay is ment to give the enemy a chance to bink the barreter. It's not even always possible with 30 delay. With half of it, it should be balance? No seriously, no.


our aim is different: a barret that u can bink easily is not what i want. that would nerf it too much imho

Our aim is to have a Barret that you can bink, but not easily. The chances for the enemy should be equal to the chances of the barreter, which isn't given in 1.3, and won't be given if the delay is too low.

yeah, 15 is a way too low..
but I actualy tested it with 25 and it seems that if you'r reacting fast enough you could bink the barretuser before he shots you, just a matter of skills this time.
the barret in my settings now is : 25 delay, +10 bink. ammo: 10

after actually playing a bit and not just trying out alone, i come to the conclusion that 20-30 is all fine (just a matter of how much u want to nerf it imho). so 25 would also be my favorite, too.