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Its quiet on the beta front.
Soldat Forums - Misc - Soldat Beta Testing
reckon
February 16, 2006, 1:21 am
Anything other than bugs going on in the world of testing?
Id like to see the server side weapon restriction feature get implemented, would be awfully nice!

Alamo
February 16, 2006, 9:29 am
Yeah um... There's no beta, so there's no beta testing, eh?
Bugs are being reported by the whole community now... and the server side weapon restriction suggestion would go into the suggestion board. what do you mean with that anyway? The weapon restrictions are server side already. Or are you talking about the number of weapons in the server?

DeMonIc
February 16, 2006, 2:00 pm
Michal is hybernating. Once he wakes up, he'll hit the gong and this place will be buzzing again.

FliesLikeABrick
February 16, 2006, 5:09 pm
upon speaking to MM the other day, it sounds like his main focuses in the near future are going to mainly be changing the inner workings of the lobby, and then mainly bugfixes after that... not so much the big changes to the game like were made for 1.3

Psyl3ntShad0w
February 16, 2006, 11:07 pm
perhaps start on completely new code to improve pings? or is that too much of a stretch?

Bugs Revenge
February 17, 2006, 1:41 pm
Psyl3ntShad0w, you can never fix pings, it's not about MM, it's about your ISP and the way to the server BUT MM could make it so there would be less lags with ur ping.. which is quite hard.

MisterX
February 18, 2006, 6:15 pm
I also think we got a pretty good version here, not much improvements needed. But we still have to tweak the balance we got now, for example M79, which is a great problem now that the rest is so well balanced. Hopefully Michal can actually improve the connection, as lag is still the biggest problem we have.

DeMonIc
February 18, 2006, 6:36 pm
On that note, maybe we should start discussing balance tweaks before the beta begins, so we can concentrate on bug finding later. We won't have much work with that anyway, only minor changes are needed for some weapon's values. The biggest question is the M79, and spraying.

m00`
February 18, 2006, 8:43 pm
the biggest problem is the custom maps + weapon mode = wrong map version bug. we seriously need that fixed asap!

LazehBoi
February 19, 2006, 5:38 am
 Quote:Originally posted by m00`the biggest problem is the custom maps + weapon mode buug = wrong map version. we seriously need that fixed asap!

It's a problem we can't do anything about, so it doesn't count :p
In any case, i'll happily lend a hand with balance... maybe my connection will like U13. that'd be rad.

m00`
February 22, 2006, 9:49 pm
What? it cant be fixed?

Dark_Noddy
February 22, 2006, 9:55 pm
I think he means that WE as testers cant do nothing about it, only Michal, can..
But I must say I disagree, if we narrow the issue down to the last single option that causes this then it would take a second to fix (that was a bit of an understatement.. but U get my point)

Psyl3ntShad0w
February 23, 2006, 1:39 am
most annoying things for me in the current version are blind ruger shots and m79. i've always wanted the minigun to be more "usable".

the m79 needs some sort of a learning curve like the barret...it's the only way newer players won't stick with those guns when they start playing...I was thinking something along the lines of a really extreme bink...say 3 hits with an auto and you can shoot straight.

ruger spray -> stronger effect of decreasing weapon damage as it gets off screen...losing half your health randomly is very very annoying.

minigun - perhaps decrease charge time and selfbink so you can actually use the gun to kill people more effectively? as it is, it's kind of useless...and if it's useless there isn't really a point in keeping it =/

Dark_Noddy
February 23, 2006, 11:34 am
I for one think the Minigun has been upgraded from worthless to somewhat good, I killed Rambo with it ^^ (gather servers) was quite amusing, but yes it should get a minor upgrade, THO, not to much, cant even imagine what servers would be like with a overpower minigun.. (something like Saw in 1.1.4, perhaps worse... Zomg) anyhow, for the M79 I thin a tad more reload and bink like the barrett or something, so U wont fire 1.5 rounds of Spas into them and they still shoot straight as a ruler >_< For the ruger spray, I havent encounterd this much but if it does as much as 50% at random shots it should be given more of that less-dmg-after-flight :D

Chakra`
February 23, 2006, 1:04 pm
On the subject of minigun, I did some experimenting with it. It is reasonably and respectfully effective without the start-up time. Go on, try it yourself. I dare ya. Removing any movementacc and selfbink makes it a right ninja of a weapon too.

DeMonIc
February 23, 2006, 1:43 pm
Keep the start-up time I say, it's the major weakness of the gun. A buddy of mine, Kaimelar did some experimenting with the weapons, and his mod seemed pretty fine, with these nifty settings:

- lowered charge for LAW
- less Socom damage
- faster rotating chainsaw with more damage
- More damage and less self-bink for minigun
- less fire speed for all of the automatics
- M79 delay.

I'd propose those to be tested out, maybe give more reload time to autos instead of fire speed decreasing, along with more reload for M79 instead of delay if that doesn't work out.

Vijchtidoodah
February 23, 2006, 7:08 pm
I'm never against trying out different things. Why not set up a server (maybe with one or two of those changes at first) so we can jump right into it.

Bugs Revenge
February 24, 2006, 12:18 am
Oh here we go again, the delay..
I'm just giving it up, do whatever you want guys, I don't play this game anymore anyways..
BUT, If u do ask me, the spraying isn't realy a problem now, not the minigun and nor the M79..
but that's just me. :x
Demonic I don't realy see any problems with the succom.. it's just fine and the LAW?
the LAW is amayzingly good now, it don't need any lower charge.
the minigun is being used now just for spraying and lagging the server, you'r against it, aren't you? so why do u want to make it useful?!
AND... the ONLY thing I could agree with you is "- less fire speed for all of the automatics"
well, if there were less firespeed it could be more skilled game which is good for all of us, but not too much lower. be careful with that.

good luck with those stuff.

Psyl3ntShad0w
February 24, 2006, 2:22 am
i like all the secondaries as they are...except for the chainsaw...which still seems somewhat useless...(might as well use a knife because you can throw it too) although it doesn't really seem like much can be done about this...

M79 delay was ok back when we tested it...but it was a really short learning curve. Maybe this sounds kind of crazy...but maybe have m79 do 75% or 80% damage(so many players are going to hate me if it gets implimented lol)...like roughly around the same damage as a grenade...i mean...it is a GRENADE launcher afterall.

Lower fire speed for automatics is cool. I hate those people that camp at a choke point with an mp5 and just spray a stream =/ we'd probably have to increase selfbink if we lower firespeed for automatics.

I don't want to completely remove the minigun delay because that deters newer players from doing stupid things. I'd rather have a combination of the damage increased and maybe a shorter delay...or maybe an even faster fire interval than the other autos...

Rambo_6
February 24, 2006, 2:45 am
i'm only concerned with the LAW. It seems to be a little too nerfed. :P

I'm a fan of the classic LAW.

DeMonIc
February 24, 2006, 7:41 am
Bugs, don't ditch us now, who'd oppose my brain-washing balance methods if not you? :)

The main concern about spraying is that it is still pretty strong, but beatable. It becomes annoying when you counter opponents who have 'regional' advantages, or odd-nets, so if you shoot them they just warp away from the bullet, or if people use p2p programs in the background ( which gives them like 250% hp, because the better part of your bullets won't count ).

Remember how much the barret delay was opposed? And did it ruin it? No, barret ist krieg on alt route still. Maybe it would work for the M79 too. Giving it less damage would be pointless: keep the insta-kill. Another idea was that the longer you keep the fire button pressed, the farther the grenade goes, but that would cause an uproar we couldn't keep with.

LAW is good, but it has a certain unreliability: sometimes Soldat doesn't acknowladge that you are actually sitting on the ground, and no matter how long you keep the button pressed, it won't shoot.

Minigun is a strong supportive weapon ( been using it in gathers lately, works like a charm ) but minigun surfing is one hell of an annoying tactic. That's why we should enforce it to be used as a weapon, not a surfboard.

About automatics: maybe decreasing their fire speed would kill their uniqueness, they would be much more similiar to each other.

Here's my proposition: let's whip-up some weapon mod, open the balance forum again ( cleaned ofcourse ) talk to a few server owners, and let's get on with testing again. Only fine-tunes this time.

Here's the mod with the mentioned solutions ( with longer reload instead of delay / fire speed reduction ). Check it out, and talk to a few server owners.

Chakra`
February 24, 2006, 12:07 pm

I personally approve of pre-beta balance testing. I will contact Michal to see what he thinks, and to ask if he has any plans for the next version - if any yet - that may involve balance issues (such as new weapon modding abilities).


I've also allowed polls to be created in this forum, so as to help discuss balancing issues with a little more clarity.


Finally, what about public-balance testing again? it didn't go quite as planned last time, but we did get some ideas and some clarity on issues from it. Or perhaps we could keep them informed by discussing individual weapons ourselves, and then polling the public for their opinion towards it. What you think?

DeMonIc
February 24, 2006, 12:19 pm
As I see it, we should share the .ini's we are testing, and allow people to post their opinion. However we should clarify that they are testing the balance, not making it, so the whole thing doesn't drown in the chaos of 'Repeating the same thing over and over is FUN'.

reckon
February 24, 2006, 8:33 pm
 Quote:Originally posted by DeMonIc
LAW is good, but it has a certain unreliability: sometimes Soldat doesn't acknowladge that you are actually sitting on the ground, and no matter how long you keep the button pressed, it won't shoot.


Could it be perhaps that you are nestled on top of some polys and not necessarily flat ground? If you are crouching on the funky polys, the law wont launch cause your soldat isnt really situated above the ground.
I know this has been mentioned before, but Id like to see the saw's "death roll": the ability to use the saw while rolling. It could aid in the fact that when you are being pinned up by bullets, you cant really move, so the roll would allow you escape that stream of bullets.
Now you wouldnt be invincible or anything while doing this, just the default roll but the saw can be used while doing so.

DeMonIc
February 25, 2006, 10:22 am
How about being able to use chainsaw in all animations? Thus the backflip, the roll and even getting in and out of prone position would turn into a lethal attack. But that's MM's piece of work, we need to balance stuff seperately.

Bugs Revenge
February 25, 2006, 10:58 am
About the m79, I actualy thought about another way of nerfing it, not by delay.
I'm totaly against the delay because of two reasons :
1. It's VERY annoying, m79 used to be the coolest gun to play with ^_^
2. It's a "curse" you get used to it by few days, it wouldn't realy help ya guys. and about the barret, I don't see much barretuseres nowadays.

my suggestion it : make the m79's bullets SLOWER, about 30% slower than they are. it would become art to hit with it and it would be a way easier to dodge. what do u guys think about it?
(adding some more selfdmg - about 10%) could be another addition.

I still don't think the secondaries should be changed since they'r absolutly fine, about spraying : if someone sprays me, I just pick up the LAW and shot the way the shots are coming from. quite easy. and the succom is the way it should be.

minigun? I ain't talking about the surffing but about the LAGGING. it just lag the whole server and you can't realy hit someone spraying with it :\

DeMonIc
February 25, 2006, 11:10 am
The point of the delay is that it scares away people who just want to get easy kills. That's why there aren't many barret users on public servers, but when used seriously, the gun is still a killer. Same would go for M79: newbies would be scared away by it, but hard-core users could still be cool with it.

It's already hard enough to do long range kills with it, so the speed decrease wouldn't cure the real problem: that when you are running against szukam_klanu[PL], he will blast you from one inch, no matter how much you binked him.

Spraying is a problem, why do you think clans like cO! can beat 'classic' clans? I assure you, it's not because their players have mighty ninja powers. As I noticed, minigun only laggs slower computers ( my old comp cried when someone used minigun, but now it doesn't make a difference ).

Bugs Revenge
February 25, 2006, 11:29 am
Nah, I have good enough computer and it doesn't lag it.. it just lag the server so I couldn't kill the sprayers that using it, the FPS just stayes the same.
about the m79 --> well, yeah it would be hella hard killing with less speed but still it would be more enjoyable :) .

I don't think delay is a good way of nerfing because it woulnd't scare only newbis but annoy the "pros" as well which haven't done anything wrong, it's just that those newbis keep using their gun :(

look, there would always be a "popular" gun that all the newbis are attracted to, we can't nerf everytime that gun since we would just ruin the whole weapons, I think just let it be this way.. we can't fix things that are not broken.

Hmm, about the other weapons I realy think they'r ballanced atm.
there's no point touching the secondaries, they'r just fine atm, the LAW is realy good imo, I'm actualy using it as a secondary instead of the succom and realy think it would be overpowered with less delay, just let it be. and about the succom it doesn't need any nerf as well. well, making the chainsaw killing in any way of moving sounds cool, but then we wouldn't give so much ammo for it.

if you'r talking about spraying so.. well, Ruger's spraying is annoying, so making it even weaker at long ranges could be fine.. I wouldn't care even if the bullet wouldn't hurt at all but we have to take into account the public's oppionion and that we'r doing it after all FOR the public.

once again about the delay, we've seen how much ppl were against the delay of the m79 and didn't like it, I don't think we should go over it again :X

btw demonic, come to the IRC so we could discuss there (beta channel)

frogboy
February 25, 2006, 11:36 am
Didn't this sort of thing happen with 1.2? Barret was nerfed, Barret fanatic(s) complained, balance was [CENSORED]ed for another half a year or so. Now it's happening with M79.

The problem with decreasing its speed is that it's already been done already and hasn't seemed to do anything, and there's only so much speed that can be decreased.

Bugs Revenge
February 25, 2006, 11:42 am
well, the change in the speed actualy helped, it became harder to hit, maybe u couldn't notice it since u'r not using it much but it is harder..
making it a bit slower could help I guess, and a bit more selfdmg.

Chakra`
February 25, 2006, 11:51 am
Ok ok, woah ...slow down there amigos. Throwing your individual opinions onto this thread? not gonna get us anywhere.

Way to go about this? Make a simple, brief, and informative opinion about whatever ideas you have in a poll, and others will let you know very clearly what they think about it. The better the majority vote, the clearer we know we're onto something with potential.